New After Effects PC

[John Cuevas]

There isn’t an apple to apples comparison (CS6 Benchmarks), but the 580(using Fermi architecture) seems to outperform the gtx 680(Kepler architecture) when using the 3D renderer in AE. Also since you will be probably using C4D for your 3D now, they don’t use the graphics card for rendering, but render off the CPU. With an i7-3930K, you effectively have 12 cores which when multi-processing can use 3gigs of RAM each, for a total of 36gigs. So if it was me(and it will be in Sept), I’d get the 580 and boost the RAM to 64gigs.

Johnny Cuevas, Editor
Thinkck.com

“I have not failed 700 times. I have succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work.”
—THOMAS EDISON on inventing the light bulb.

[Mark Laslo]

Thanks John,

64 GB of RAM sounds good, and I will look into the the 580 instead of the 680. Will have to see how the 580 compares in 2D rendering as well.

So you think going with the hex-core Sandy Bridge is better than the quad core Ivy Bridge. Is it even worth the price to look at a Xeon processor/board?

Also any suggestions on monitors, was considering a Dell IPS of some sort.

-Mark

[Walter Soyka]

Looks pretty good, but you’ll need more storage. 512 GB of SSD storage could be enough for the OS, apps, and Ae’s disk cache, but you’ll need something for media as well. You might consider a RAID setup.

You might consider a separate, dedicated SSD drive for Ae’s cache. Putting it on a separate drive vs. the OS and apps won’t gain you performance, but it’s easier to administer and will allow you to easily allocate a larger amount of storage to the cache.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Alex Gerulaitis]

[John Cuevas] ” the 580(using Fermi architecture) seems to outperform the gtx 680″

John,

Thanks so much for compiling the benchmarks – eye opening. 🙂

Wonder how Quadro K5000 and the upcoming GTX-780 compare…

Also, are there CPU-based AE benchmarks pitching 3770K and 3930K CPUs against dual E5 Xeons?

Thanks again.

[Alex Gerulaitis]

[Alex Gerulaitis] “Wonder how Quadro K5000 and the upcoming GTX-780 compare…”

May have answered my own question: GTX-480 and GTX-580 are the only GeForce cards with a 384-bit memory interface. Memory bandwidth (192GB/s) is the same as in GTX-680. Core count – much lower (512 on GTX-580 vs 1536 on GTX-680). So somehow that memory interface seems to be playing a critical role.

(Edit: scratch that: GTX Titan and GTX-780 also have a 384-bit memory interface. Not sure why Titan is slower than 580 in ray tracing.)

[Mark Laslo]

Thanks Walter,

The plan for this machine is to work off of shared storage/SAN – 24 TB Caldigit RAID. A bit more detail on our situation – Right now our animator is working off an iMac hooked up to our shared storage via Ethernet. Our main two boxes run metaSAN and the others just pull from that. My end goal is to have everybody on metaLAN and put this machine on either metaLAN or connect via Fiber through metaSAN.

As for a separate drive for AE cache – that seems like a good idea. Would it also be feasible with a bigger drive to format the drive with two partitions (System files/programs on one and cache on the other) since you said you would not see a performance increase between one or two drives. This is that part of AE that I don’t know because I don’t work in it. Would it make sense to push these cache files to the server – it seems like that would just bog things down.

Any suggestion on a monitor/monitors?

Thanks for your feedback!
Mark

[Ian Mapleson]

Mark writes:
> technical background for designing and building PC’s, I am not as
> familiar with what improves performance in those areas.

I’ve been doing a lot of work on AE build issues in the past few months.
As with all things, it’s a balance of compute, GPU, I/O, RAM, etc.

I built an AE system for someone back in January, exploiting used parts
where possible or sensible (the fans, mbd, CPU, RAM, SSDs, DVDRW and
Quadro were new, everything else used, though some new items were for
eBay and thus saved some pennies). There wasn’t the budget for a single
good CUDA card, so I fitted two 460s instead which is just as quick; the
plan is to replace them later (when the user’s budget permits) with two
or more 580 3GB cards. Here’s the config:

Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 (max EATX)
Rear Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 140mm PWM
Side Case Fans: 2x Gelid Wing Blue UV 12 1600rpm
Modular PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W Standard
MOTHERBOARD: ASUS P9X79 WS
CPU: i7 3930K 6-core 3.2GHz 12MB S2011
CPU Heatsink: Phanteks PH-TC14PE Red with three fans
RAM: GSkill 64GB (8x8GB) DDR3/2400 CL10
System Drive: Samsung 830 256GB SSD
AE Cache: Samsung 830 256GB SSD
Main Storage: 1x Hitachi 2TB Enterprise SATA OEM
2x Hitachi 2TB Enterprise SATA OEM
DVDRW: Sony Optiarc 24X
Graphics Primary: Quadro 4000 2GB (256 cores)
Graphics CUDA: 2x Palit GTX 460 2GB (672 cores total)

I’m about to send the user two GTX 460 2GB cards to replace the 1GB
cards, a temporary boost in capability (ie. RAM capacity will then match
the Quadro 4K).

The main display card is a Quadro in order to have better primary GPU
image quality, reliability, etc.

Note that I was so impressed with the ASUS mbd, I built a replica system
for myself, which I’m currently finalising atm (all up & running, just
sorting out the same oc), though I built it in a different way, with the
PSU at the top of the case so that the system can be fitted with four
GPUs instead of three. Hindsight is always wonderful. Hopefully I change
the first system sometime to be the same, if the user can visit again.

Here’s some pics (that’s me in a couple of them; the client took the pics
as he collected in person to avoid any courier issues):

https://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/aepcpics.zip

and a CPU-Z:

https://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2656382

In your case Mark, I would say the following…

> Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Too small. I have *lots* of Antec 300 cases, they’re great for quad-core
builds, but not for an X79 setup. There just isn’t the air flow to cope
with the heat kicked out by a 3930K, multiple GPUs, disks, etc.

> ASUS P9X79 PRO LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel
> Motherboard with USB BIOS

I’d recommend the WS instead.

> EVGA 04G-P4-3687-KR GeForce GTX 680 FTW+ w/Backplate 4GB 256-bit GDDR5
> PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

The CUDA performance of the 680 is not so good.

You’re better off with one or more GTX 580 3GB cards.

> CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W ATX12V v2.31 /
> EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular …

Not enough. You need at least 1kW, preferably 1200W, and if you intend to
fit multiple exta GPUs later then 1500W (especially if they’re 580s).

> Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W
> Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K

Yes, good choice, but make sure it’s a C2 stepping.

> Crucial M4 CT512M4SSD1 2.5″ 512GB SATA III MLC 7mm Internal Solid State
> Drive (SSD)

Eek, not what I would choose, not for a system like this. Samsung 840 Pro,
OCZ Vector or Vertex4 would be better.

I’ve fitted mine with a standard Samsung 840 250GB since the 830s are not
available anymore (and I couldn’t afford a Pro), have to say I’m very
impressed with it’s long term behaviour. Here’s an HDTach I did this week:

https://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/samsung_840_250GB_HDTach_22-May-2013.gif

If I had the budget though then I’d get an 840 Pro as its write
performance is quite a kick up the scale. Note the only reason why I’d
choose the Pro is atm the Vector and Vertex4 are unnecessarily expensive.
I struck lucky though, bagged two new Vector 256GB units off eBay for
good prices (150 UKP each).

> G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3
> 12800) Desktop Memory or G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) 240-Pin
> DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

Memory bandwidth helps for AE. Get two of the TridentX 2400 kits
instead. The higher rating means they’ll be stable at 2133. Ironically,
the 2400 kit was cheaper than 2133 kits.

> COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact
> 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler

No, not renmotely good enough. Get at least the Phanteks PH-TC14PE.

Also, you should absolutely have an SSD dedicated to being an AE cache,
it definitely helps. If you want to save some pennies, grab a used 120GB
Vertex3 off eBay, but obviously newer models will be somewhat better
(256GB Vector, Vertex4, 840 Pro or the other top-tier models would be best).

Note that I will be benchmarking my system with 4 x GTX 460 once the oc
is sorted out, also several other 3/4-way boards (P55, P67, X58), and
I’ve jsut obtained my first 580 (hoping to get at least 2 more in time).

For those commenting about CUDA performance of the 680 vs. 580, etc., in
my research since last year I have concluded that what matters most of
all is aggregate bandwidth per CUDA core. Thus, the 680, despite it’s
large number of cores, is unable to feed them as effectively as the 580.
There are certain cases where the 680 isn’t so bad, but – like the 780 –
the 580 has a major advantage with its high bw-per-core ratio. This is
also why multiple lesser GPUs like 460s work well, though of course the
power efficiency of the latter is not as good.

More data later. Let me know if you’d like some pics of my own 3930K
build. Finished it on Wednesday.

Johnny is right btw, definitely max the RAM. Also Mark, XEON boards
generally can’t be oc’d so much, if at all, and my 3930K easily stomps
on my dual-XEON Dell T7500 (two X5570s).

As for IvyBridge, unless one des the cap mod to replace the internal
chip paste, it runs far too hot, severely limiting oc potential unless
one uses water cooling.

Walter, RAID doesn’t seem to be necessary for the main ‘work’ disk when
dealing with AE, but it’s definitely a good idea to have something like
RAID1 for long term archiving.

Mark, don’t split an SSD in two; just have one for the system disk
(really, 256GB ought to be sufficient), and another for an AE cache. If
you can’t afford a 2nd 256GB, just get a 120GB or 128GB model to begin
with. Definitely do NOT use the server to hold the cache (that would
defeat the purpose of the cache completely, with respect to speed).

Re monitor, there are numerous well priced IPS 2560×1440 displays these
days, but if you’re on a budget, then the Dell UltraSharp U2412M 1920×1200
IPS is quite good for its prices.

I bought the HP LP2475W 1920×1200 HIPS, but that was a while back and
prices have dropped since then.

Cheers! 🙂

Ian.

SGI Guru

[Walter Soyka]

[Mark Laslo] “As for a separate drive for AE cache – that seems like a good idea. Would it also be feasible with a bigger drive to format the drive with two partitions (System files/programs on one and cache on the other) since you said you would not see a performance increase between one or two drives. This is that part of AE that I don’t know because I don’t work in it. Would it make sense to push these cache files to the server – it seems like that would just bog things down.”

I’d keep the cache local. Putting on a server will clobber performance with a constant stream of single-file I/Os.

You could partition one large SSD drive, but you might get more performance/dollar if you buy two smaller (and maybe faster) drives.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Walter Soyka]

[Alex Gerulaitis] “Core count – much lower (512 on GTX-580 vs 1536 on GTX-680).”

There’s a major architecture change between these series of cards (Fermi for the 580, Kepler for the 680), so core counts are not directly comparable.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Mark Laslo]

Thanks for all of the deep insights Ian!

This looks like quite the machine. My thoughts right now are that at current I’m going to stick with just one GFX card since I’ve been reading that After Effects only pulls from one GFX card for rendering. Can you confirm or deny this?

How much does this rig rely on overclocking – my goal would be to keep everything in as stock a configuration as possible to keep everything running as stable as possible. It looks like if I left everything at default it would work quite well still, but just wanted to be sure.

Thanks!
Mark