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Nesting is definitely broken….as is this whole program
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Dont you love that response…..
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[meeroo] “I had a problem when I nested all my sequences into the final sequence. I just inserted them from bin to timeline. Than, when I did some audio changes to some of sequences, nothing happened in the final sequence. If I understood you correctly, I should duplicate that sequences and than nested them to avoid this from happening?”
It’s confusing because everyone assumes FCP will treat nested sequences completely differently than it does raw clips, but it doesn’t. Again, it all gets back to how FCP handles media
Ok, how about this. Generally when you’re editing, you’ll double click a raw clip in your bins which will bring it into the Viewer. You’ll set your in point / out point and then drop that into the timeline. At that point, the clip in your timeline is now treated as a new piece of “sub media” for lack of a better word.
The raw media in your bin and that new “sub media” clip in the timeline are treated as two pieces of media by FCP. You can apply filters, speed changes, etc…. to the “sub media” clip in the timeline, but the raw media in the bin will retain all of the original attributes as when you first captured it.
Does that make sense so far?
Ok, the same thing happens if you take that raw piece of media and simply drag it from your bin to a timeline. FCP treats that clip in the timeline as a new piece of “sub media” just as I described it above.
Now, the same rule applies to your Sequences you drag from the bin to your new timeline. Once you drop that Sequence (or Nest) from the bin into a new timeline, it’s considered a new piece of “sub media.” by FCP. If you want to make changes to any of the nested sequence in your new timeline, you either want to double click the Nest that’s in the new timeline, or highlight the next and simply hit Return to move it up into the Viewer.
Does that make sense? It’s one of those things that once you get it, “you get it.”
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Those methods will create a new instance, unlinked to the original nested sequence.
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[walter biscardi] “If you don’t understand how this works, then you don’t understand how FCP overall works. Any clip in a timeline is a “different” version of the clip that’s in your bin or even the clip that’s in the Viewer. Once you understand this, you can really use this feature to your advantage. A typical project for me has about 40 or so nests that are all derived from the original, but are each their own unique nest.”
That is absolutely not how nesting is supposed to work or how it was advertised to work when final cut was introduced and marketed.
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[walter biscardi] “Now, the same rule applies to your Sequences you drag from the bin to your new timeline. Once you drop that Sequence (or Nest) from the bin into a new timeline, it’s considered a new piece of “sub media.” by FCP. If you want to make changes to any of the nested sequence in your new timeline, you either want to double click the Nest that’s in the new timeline, or highlight the next and simply hit Return to move it up into the Viewer.”
I think you’re very confused. You can’t edit a nest in a viewer. He’s claiming that the seqeunce he edited into the other sequence doesn’t get updated when he changes elements in the nested sequence, whether it be clips or audio. If you have rendered the nested seqeunce within the other seqeunce it’s true that elements don’t often get updated, but only if it’s been rendered. A simple change to opaccity and back and the sequence updates. Still linked the origninal. Unless you’ve copied or duplicated in some way, which breaks the link.
We understand that adding filters to the nest don’t affect other instances of the nest.
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Ok, but that’s NOT what I described. Nested sequences ONLY retain their link to the sequence in the bin when the are edited from the bin into the sequence. So let’s add to the list… copying, duplicating, or “bizzarely dragging a nested sequence within a seqeunce into the viewer and editing it into a third sequence” also breaks the link.
I’m not saying it’s right, but just that the ONLY rule you have to know is that to keep a link to a sequence you have to edit the sequence into another from the bin. Either by dragging or by loading to the viewer (from the bin) and editing into seq.
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Yeah. Like Avid for example doesn’t have nested sequences. Problem solved. It has nests, but not nested sequences.
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[Bob Flood] “2, i am constantly refering to diane weylands book on FCP and there really is no explanation as to the fact that when you edit a sequence into another sequence, its different from the sequence you have in the bin, or in another timeline, or in yer moms drawers. “
She is completely correct. You misunderstood. You edited a “subclip” of a sequence into a third sequence. FCP considers that a copy and paste function. Had you gone back to the seq in the bin and loaded it into the viewer (like a clip) then edited that into the 3rd seqence all would be well.
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Hi Bob
The other way to look at this problem is just to load the sequence into the clip viewer
and hold down the command key to force FCP to insert or overwrite the sequence material
as master clips into your new sequence. I find this more powerful than nesting. Copy and paste attributes
for effects, or hold instances of effects in a bin to reapply. Anamorphic or letterbox can be forced by
changing your new sequence settings. Sequences in sequences work for me. Duplicating sequences for multiform
work in FCP via this method is the safe way to go. At least you can mix and match – source clips with sequence material.
Best Regards -
Walter: Fine explaination and very accurate. I too come from Discreet Edit and have found the FCP workflow very empowering. I was lucky enough to have taken a day of training to explain some of the core features of FCP and the fact that clips on the timeline and nests are considered unique media, unattached to the original so to speak, is a biggie. Good colleague bee eph learned that the hard way, also suffering I think from some interface issues.
David: Your sense of humour is appreciated by me.
Bob: It will get better. FCP isn’t broken but neither are you. Go get some lunch. 🙂
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Rick Dolishny
Discrete Editors COW Forum Leader—
Rick Dolishny
rdolishny@hotmail.com
http://www.dolish.com
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