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More Bricklayers and Sculptors from Oliver and Simon
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[Tony West] “Wow, that’s interesting. I can see how it could work.”
I kinda stumbled into it. On a doc project a director wanted to watch down all the broll he shot and since clicking on clip after clip in the Browser is tedious I started putting them into a single time. I kept adding more and more and Premiere never became sluggish so I ended up going “what hell” and put them all in. To my amazement the 14hr hour timeline played back fine. Even on my 2011 MBP it didn’t lag.
What I’ve noticed with PPro is that timeline duration alone doesn’t seem to cause lag, but a combination of a lot cuts plus long duration will get it to lag. So if I started editing in that 14hr timeline then it would start to lag once hundreds and then thousands of cuts started to appear. So super long timelines are great for selects/broll, but not great for editing in my experience.
I wouldn’t label every clip, but I would label the beginning of each section with a blue marker, and then interesting bits of broll with a red marker. So a mix of color coding and markers w/notes for the organization. And since markers can ripple I can easily add new content as needed and not screw up my organization.
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[Andrew Kimery] “On a doc project a director wanted to watch down all the broll he shot and since clicking on clip after clip in the Browser is tedious I started putting them into a single time.”
The B-roll string-out is something I really embrace and is a good part of the way Simon’s process is as well. Let’s take this example – I’m working on a short segment about St. Thomas. The dailies include multicam/double-system sound interview with locals – guides, chefs, artists, etc. My process is something like this:
1. Import everything. In Premiere, according to day/camera/card. In X, into a single event.
2. Organize by rough categories. In Premiere that means to regroup clips by dragging into new bins. In X, sort by keyword collections. These would be categories, like sync sound interviews, b-roll pertaining to each person, general landmarks, aerials, etc. A short piece might have 5 or 6 bins. A longer one maybe a dozen or more.
3. Sync and group all multicam interviews. Slap these into a sequence for each person.
4. Slap all B-roll clips from each bin (or keyword collection) into a sequence fro the topic.
From this point forward, I’m only working in the sequences. Generally I make a few duplicates (snapshots) along the way, if I need to step back. But the next steps are to cut these down to their essence. The interviews may go from 30 minutes to 3 minutes each. The possible b-roll selects for each category might go from a few hours down to 10-20 minutes.
The last step is to build the final – dialogue-based “spine” with added B-roll. This is where Premiere’s pancake method is great. For example, I can have a “master” sequence in one timeline window, and then tabbed sequences for the component string outs (now whittled down) in the other timeline window. Moving between the two is effortless and Premiere deals with this process very fluidly.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Andrew Kimery] “14hr long broll timeline.”
You know enough about the FCP X workflow, Andrew, to understand why the above sounds like a nightmare step backwards to any qualified FCP X editor.
FWIW.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Oliver Peters] ” I can have a “master” sequence in one timeline window, and then tabbed sequences for the component string outs (now whittled down) in the other timeline window. Moving between the two is effortless and Premiere deals with this process very fluidly.”
Wait, this process sounds very much to me like laying bricks???
Bring them out in a bin, take them one by one and add them to a separate construction.
I thought that was bad?
I thought the Premiere gestalt was supposed to be more “sculptural?”
And yet in X, what do we have?
Snapshot and “carve away” on the work until you whittle it down to the essence. Want another pass? Go back to your original, new snapshot – and carve a different shape out of the material.
I’m more confused than ever.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
Here is how I just did a 2 minute promo piece for a client in New Orleans this past week:
Import (leave in place) footage into FCP. Events for different locations and items (end cards, music, etc)
Filter via favorites in each event. Entire clips or just parts of clips.
Create version 1 project timeline by appending the sh** out of footage (E key). Rough, but I get an idea.
Trim to taste. Put multiple clips of music on and having one active at a time for review.
Snapshot version 2 and trim more, move clips around to create a better flow.
Snapshot version 3 with client feedback. Share to web for approval.
Bill job to client.
Am I a bricklayer or sculpture? Not that it matters because the client was happy and I got paid sooner.
Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
*sculptor*
Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Andrew Kimery] “since clicking on clip after clip in the Browser is tedious I started putting them into a single time.”
Yes that would be tedious, but you can play through clips in the browser in X so to put them into the timeline just to play through would be kind of an unnecessary step.
I always have my shots organized in the finder anyway so as long as I have this box checked they are tagged inside X
automatically.
Once I click on the keyword I can see all of the shots from this view. If you strung all of these shots out they wouldn’t all fit in the window of the timeline and then you have to start moving the playhead around to find different shots. I can see the shots right there, so if you were editing for me I would just say “Andrew, may I see all of my Granite City shots” You click once, then I would point to the screen and say “That sign shot right there Andrew”
I find myself more and more not even labeling broll shots because I can see what they are. I don’t really have to type “front of plant” because I can see it.
Now on the other hand, I’m cutting a multi-cam interview right now that is almost two hours long. It’s a life story deal. That one I’m doing in the timeline and using markers for where broll will go later(but I still won’t be stringing out broll). I can come back through my timeline index to find the marker that says, put MLK pic here. So in that since I look like you and Oliver.
I guess it would depend on what you were cutting and for who and what kind of instructions you were given from the client.
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[Bill Davis] “Wait, this process sounds very much to me like laying bricks???
Bring them out in a bin, take them one by one and add them to a separate construction.”Organizing in bins and slapping together string outs is “laying bricks”. The difference is that’s about 10% of the time. After that it’s purely “sculpting”.
[Bill Davis] “I thought the Premiere gestalt was supposed to be more “sculptural?””
This was never positioned as a Premiere vs X thing. I follow that same process in either. Speaking only for me, I’ve done the purely X approach and have found it limiting and easy to miss things. So I’ve moved on and work X the way it best works for me.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Tony West] “Once I click on the keyword I can see all of the shots from this view.”
This thread has become quite fascinating in that there are so many different approaches to prepping a project and then building it out.
One thing though that hasn’t been mentioned is the importance of serendipity. Walter Murch was the first person that I heard discuss the role serendipity plays in his edit process and while I’m not cutting Hollywood films, I too rely heavily on serendipity to help me make my pieces better.
In the editorial realm, serendipity is finding accidental gems that can be incorporated into a final cut. These items might be camera mistakes, nat sound finds, music tracks that might be placed in your timeline in an accidental way but which work well. These serendipitous items can sometimes be the best material and oftentimes it takes awhile to find them.
If the browser viewer works for someone in FCPX to stumble onto serendipitous moments then that’s great but for me I need a stringout that I can scrub through.
Adobe Premiere 2017.1.1
Windows 10 Pro
Samsung SSD 850 EVO system
Samsung SSD 850 EVO Adobe cache
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
OWC Thunderbay 12t x 2 in Raid10 configuration (thru Storage Spaces and Disk Management) -
[greg janza] “If the browser viewer works for someone in FCPX to stumble onto serendipitous moments then that’s great but for me I need a stringout that I can scrub through.
“But Greg, since the clips in the browser play through in X it’s the same look as a stringout. Only you are not dropping anything into a timeline unless you want to.
When you play one clip, it gets to the end and the starts playing the next clip and so on.
If I covered up part of the screen accept for the canvas, you wouldn’t know the difference from the browser and the timeline. You would just see clips playing one after another.
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