Made the BIG switcheroo

[Todd Vanslyck]

It’s quite the change, but it’s been smoother than I thought.
Pros:
– I’ve been really happy with Premiere overall. The speed and ease of switching has been great.
– I’ve got a dual 8-core machine that’s hyper-threaded so it’s 32 cores working! Crazy fast.
– I don’t know about the Z820 but the expansion possibilities on this dell is huge. You can install lots of extras (cards, etc) and more ram than you’ll ever need (I have 40 gb)
– Working with files natively in Premiere is so amazing. Have I mentioned it’s amazing? And also amazing as well?

Cons:
– I’ve been having a lot of trouble with the AJA Lhe card. Still trying to work out the kinks.
– No ProRes. You can get a free decoder but you can’t encode easily. I’ve seen some stuff on here using ffmpeg but i haven’t messed around. I figure if I need it bad enough I can still access my mac on the table behind me.
– I shoot with the EX1 and there’s no free decoder for windows. You have to buy one from Calibrated for 150 bucks.
– Quicktime SUCKS on Windows. If I have to play any files to view them (like after I render in After Effects) I use VLC.

I think having the quadro 5000 will be better than the 2000 I have. The Tesla card…honestly I’ve been having a tough time telling whether it was worth it or not, simply because I’m pulling most of my media over the network via a cat 5 cable (yes, I know, I know). I’m trying to remedy that situation because it’s a HUGE bottleneck right now as far as playing media on the timeline with effects on it. I’d really like to do more tests to see how much it’s actually doing but I really can’t find any documentation other than the super-nerdy “You can use this for your atom analyzing super-computer” stuff on NVIDIA.

Overall I’m pretty happy with it. If I can work out the stuff with the network and see how much this tesla card is actually doing I’d be happier.

Good luck!

P.S. I still miss my Mac.

Dell T76000 Dual 8-core 2.4 GHz
NVIDIA Quadro 2000
NVIDIA Tesla c2075
Adobe Premiere Pro CS6
After Effects CS6
Cinema 4d r12

[Jud Johnson]

[Todd VanSlyck] “- I’ve got a dual 8-core machine that’s hyper-threaded so it’s 32 cores working! Crazy fast.”

Please excuse my ignorance, but how did you get it hyper-threaded? Is that something Dell did when you ordered it, or did you do it yourself?

[Todd VanSlyck] “- Working with files natively in Premiere is so amazing. Have I mentioned it’s amazing? And also amazing as well?”

Good to hear! We cannot wait to do this. It will save so much time!

[Todd VanSlyck] ” I shoot with the EX1 and there’s no free decoder for windows. You have to buy one from Calibrated for 150 bucks. “

How many simultaneous streams of footage are you able to run on this machine? (over the network)

[Todd VanSlyck] “I think having the quadro 5000 will be better than the 2000 I have. The Tesla card…honestly I’ve been having a tough time telling whether it was worth it or not, “

Good to know, thanks!

Do you use any kind of dvd/blu-ray burner on the machine? Or a card reader as well?

Thanks so much!

Jud Johnson
Luxe Films
http://www.luxefilmshouston.com

[Todd Vanslyck]

It comes hyper-threaded, unbeknownst to me. It was a very pleasant surprise.
I just did a test using 1080p video from the 7d (using the prores codec). I had 10 of them scaled down to 25% and stacked running with no problem. It’s when you use a codec like the animation codec (which i render my AE files in) or add something like Magic Bullet Looks (which I use constantly) that it really drags more quickly.
I have a card reader to grab stuff off the CF card, yes. It’s a Kingston reader. Pretty cheap and can also read 4 other types of cards.
Oh yeah, the burner thing. Apparently the default for the dvd slot is a DVD-rom and I didn’t notice when I ordered. (who makes a DVD-rom player the standard default at this level of machine??) So I have to order a burner yet.
Also, if you need firewire you’ll need to buy a card for it. It’s little things like that that I would never think about which are standard on a Mac.

Dell T76000 Dual 8-core 2.4 GHz
NVIDIA Quadro 2000
NVIDIA Tesla c2075
Adobe Premiere Pro CS6
After Effects CS6
Cinema 4d r12

[Jud Johnson]

[Todd VanSlyck] “It comes hyper-threaded, unbeknownst to me. It was a very pleasant surprise.”

Awesome!

[Todd VanSlyck] “I just did a test using 1080p video from the 7d (using the prores codec). I had 10 of them scaled down to 25% and stacked running with no problem.”

Double Awesome! We use a lot of 7D footage.

[Todd VanSlyck] “It’s when you use a codec like the animation codec (which i render my AE files in) or add something like Magic Bullet Looks (which I use constantly) that it really drags more quickly.”

Good to know. Sounds like the Quadro 4000,5000, or 6000 + Tesla would be best for us.

[Todd VanSlyck] “Oh yeah, the burner thing. Apparently the default for the dvd slot is a DVD-rom and I didn’t notice when I ordered. (who makes a DVD-rom player the standard default at this level of machine??) So I have to order a burner yet.
Also, if you need firewire you’ll need to buy a card for it. It’s little things like that that I would never think about which are standard on a Mac.”

Also good to know. I agree with you…coming from mac, i would assume these items come standard.

Thanks!

Jud Johnson
Luxe Films
http://www.luxefilmshouston.com

[Cyrus Dowlatshahi]

I think I’ve figured out a workflow for my feature doc:

I have a master project. It will contain a bin for clips from each shooting day, and as I continue to shoot I’ll add bins.

As time allows, I’ll work on this master project: add clip descriptions, markers, check ‘good’ and add keywords.

When I want to start editing (presumably using footage from multiple days), I will duplicate this master project in the Finder and open it in Premiere. I’ll delete footage from the days I know I won’t be using to improve performance, and begin editing. This will ensure that at any given time I’ll have the latest logging info when I begin editing a scene.

If I need additional footage from additional days, I’ll import that master project and then delete unwanted footage. Again, this will ensure that the clips I use have the latest metadata.

The only problem I foresee is having annoying duplicate master clips that I won’t be able to delete (because PP will remove them from sequences, unlike what happens in FCP 7).

[Greg Estes]

Hey Jud and Todd and others,

I can maybe save you some money. When you run a Maximus system (i.e. a Quadro and Tesla together in a single workstation) and Premiere Pro, the Tesla is doing all the work. Maximus technology routes all the CUDA functions to the Tesla, and all the OpenGL stuff to the Quadro. MCP in Premiere Pro is all CUDA (or maybe OpenCL on a Mac but that’s another story). The simple benefit of Maximus technology is you can absolutely slam the Tesla with a render or encoding or whatever, and the Quadro just hums along so your user interactivity remains nice. If you had a single Quadro doing all the work there would be some contention and your interactivity will suffer. So in general a Quadro 2000 + Tesla C2075 will perform the same for Premiere Pro CS6 as a Quadro 6000 + Tesla C2075, but cost about $3,000 less.

Now, After Effects CS6 would put both a Q6000 and C2075 to full use, because AE uses our OptiX technology which is multi-GPU. But Premiere Pro is really a single GPU app, which is running all effects just on the Tesla and the GUI on the Quadro. Other Maximus apps like Quantel Pablo Rio and DaVinci Resolve work in a similar way, so go heavy on Tesla and light on the Quadro is best value for you.

And as far as too much geeky non-media/entertainment stuff on the NVIDIA site. Sorry about that. Always working to improve but we’re a big company. Any and all can email me with questions and I’ll route to people smarter than me and get you clear answers. gestes@nvidia.com

Cheers,
Greg

[Alex Gerulaitis]

Greg,

Thank you very much for the post – good to see someone from NVidia chiming in.

Any definitive benchmarks or independent demos on Premiere Pro performance in Maximus? All I saw was very vague declarations of incredible performance feats with no real-world benchmarks or UI fluidity or FPS demos.

Some articles out there make a case for improved UI fluidity in Maximus, e.g. fewer dropped frames while scrubbing or playing back complex timelines.

Is that it for Premiere Pro? (I am not discounting the benefits, just asking if this is the only appreciable benefit of Maximus in Premiere Pro.)

Question Number TWO (the more important one I think):

What is the value of Maximus for any application, when you compare something + Tesla vs. something that costs about the same as both of those?

E.g. don’t compare a Q2K vs. Q2K + Tesla, this is just bonkers – it’s like comparing a $1 hamburger vs. a $20 one – in most cases, clearly there will be differences.

Compare a Q2K + Tesla (about $2.5K) vs. Q5K (under $2K). Significant UI improvements under load in Pr or AE? Appreciable performance improvements (rendering) in any app?

P.S. There was a similar discussion on Adobe forum that may give additional info:

https://forums.adobe.com/message/4701367#4701367

Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Engineer
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA

[Greg Estes]

I’ll try to dig up some good benchmarks. Basically, here is the way I think most users should make a good choice:

1. Are you running hard enough problems so GPU acceleration will make a difference? If you are just doing a couple of layers with minimal effects, then the GPU acceleration won’t change your life. If you are working with ARRI or RED files and lots of layers, then you’re crazy to not have a GPU.
2. Each Quadro provides better performance than the one below it in the product line. Q5000 outperforms a Q4000 which outperforms a Q2000 and so on. Adobe has done a very good job of using CUDA and it shows when you throw more CUDA cores at a given problem size.
3. Once you get to the point where a Q5000 or Q6000 might make sense, flip over to Maximus. The reason is a Tesla C2075 will perform (for Premiere Pro) almost exactly the same as a Q6000 but it costs on the order of $1000 less. So save your money and buy a Maximus with a small Quadro plus a C2075.
4. This logic stops being true if you do a lot of After Effects, because AE uses *both* GPUs and now a small Quadro and a big Tesla won’t make as much sense as a more balanced system.
5. For most users, a Quadro 4000 with a street price of $750 USD makes the most sense. It will accelerate Premiere Pro, After Effects, SpeedGrade and Photoshop not to mention Nuke, Maya, 3ds Max, etc etc.

We would love for everyone to buy Maximus of course, but we’re actually more interested in having people get the most value for the money, and for 75% of PPRO users, that’s probably just a Quadro 4000. For power users, Maximus will make more sense than a single Q6000 or Q5000 because it performs the same, costs less and gives you the interactivity I mentioned in my prior post.

[Alex Gerulaitis]

[Greg Estes] “For power users, Maximus will make more sense than a single Q6000 or Q5000 because it performs the same, costs less and gives you the interactivity I mentioned in my prior post.”

Q2000 + Tesla costs less than a single Q5000?

I thought Tesla was $2K+, and Q5K was around $1.7K? Does adding a $400 Q2000 to Tesla somehow make it cost less?

And it performs the same or better?

I’d love to see something (benchmarks, demonstration) that proves it.

This comparo (Q5K against Q2K+Tesla) is one of the few that actually make sense (rather than Q2K against Q2K+Tesla) – because they sort of in the same $$ ballpark, and if this Maximus combo indeed kills the Q5K on some benchmarks, customers could justify it.

Q2K + Tesla vs. Q6K – sure, this makes sense money-wise, but again, there has to be a clear case for it, what applications benefit most from it, where, and why.

(It was just a bit unusual to see an engineering company such as NVidia make far reaching claims that didn’t seem well substantiated – especially when targeted at “pros” where they will likely be under greater scrutiny.)

Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Engineer
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA

[Greg Estes]

Sorry – that was unintentionally misleading. I meant the Q6000 for both the performance being the same and the price being less

Quadro 2000 + Tesla C2075 would be street price of about $2700.
Quadro 6000 has a street price of around $3250 (varies a lot by reseller)

Those two will perform about the same for Premiere Pro. And you could downgrade the Q2000 for a Quadro 600 and save another couple hundred bucks but I don’t recommend it, just because the Quadro 600 won’t be the right choice for almost any other pro app you want to run.

The Quadro 5000 is around $1750, so costs less and performs less, too, relative to either a Quadro 6000 or a Maximus (any config), but it will perform better than a single Q2000 or Q4000.

Hope that all makes sense. Remember this is for Premiere Pro we’re talking about. Other apps might be a different story. Assimilate tested Maximus for Scratch and said a single Q6000 performed better, as one example.

Net-net: Best bang for the buck for many users is Q4000. Best price/performance for serious pros is Maximus (with modest Quadro plus Tesla C2075) unless you are doing a lot of After Effects then upgrade the Quadro to be beefier because AE uses both Quadro and Tesla together for multi-GPU rendering.