Is this why the new Mac Pro has been taking so long?

[Andy Patterson]

[Walter Soyka] “[andy patterson] ” I doubt a lot of Apple users know the difference between LGA 1151 and LGA 2011(not that all PC users do).”

I’m one of the biggest PC proponents on this forum, and I don’t know the difference between an LGA 1151 and LGA 2011. In fact, it’s been one of my contentions for almost 6 years now that you can buy a well-integrated PC from a reliable vendor, just as you’d buy a Mac Pro from Apple. You can have access to more options (some of which outperform Apple hardware at significantly greater expense), you can have access to great support (on-site repair beats a trip the mall in my book), and you never have to even think about things like “LGA whatever.””

That proves my point. What I am saying is some people will buy Apple because of brand loyalty. Even though there might be a better options. You don’t really see Dell brand loyalty do you?

[Andy Patterson]

[Chris Harlan] “[Walter Soyka] “I don’t know the difference between an LGA 1151 and LGA 2011.”

I believe its 860.”

Funny : )

[Andrew Kimery]

Cool, thanks for the info, Chris. How well does writing on the iPad Pro work?

[Joe Marler]

[Ronny Courtens] ” I don’t see the MacPro as something this vast majority uses or even needs. Not even those of us working in television or film production….a friend who works at a large tv production company…decided to buy 42 maxed out iMacs instead because the price difference did not justify the performance gains. And these guys need performant hardware because they produce long-form television programs that often involve heavy 4K multicam projects that they want to edit natively….”

Is their “native” 4k content H264 or ProRes? In general a top-spec iMac 27 does well on ProRes and lots of content producers use ProRes acquisition. It also does well on 4k H264 with proxy, but you must generate the proxies. We became accustomed to fast camera-native editing on H264 1080p, but that doesn’t work so well at 4k — even using FCPX on the fastest possible iMac. It is borderline usable for limited single camera editing, and it’s much faster than Premiere on the same hardware, but it’s not remotely fast enough for multicam without proxy. That would be expecting too much.

From one standpoint this is sort of a niche within a niche — 4k H264 acquisition, native editing, no proxy. However 4k is everywhere now, regardless of final distribution resolution. H264 acquisition is very common and nobody who’s gotten used to native editing wants to go back to transcoding. For this scenario either a well-equipped Mac Pro or an improved iMac 27 would help a lot. Fortunately it appears Apple is working on both of these, based on the recent announcements.

[Walter Soyka]

Andy, I agree with you that Microsoft is offering some really compelling products for creatives. That’s why I use them. That said, I’m one of only a handful of Surface users in what seems like an ocean of iPads and MacBook Pros in the New York design market.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Walter Soyka]

[andy patterson] “That proves my point. What I am saying is some people will buy Apple because of brand loyalty. Even though there might be a better options. You don’t really see Dell brand loyalty do you?”

I see significant HP brand loyalty in production, and I have a good amount of it myself. I guess it depends where you look.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Tim Wilson]

[Walter Soyka] “I see significant HP brand loyalty in production, and I have a good amount of it myself. I guess it depends where you look.”

Yes, in the world of people who use PCs — AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM — there’s a lot of brand loyalty to HP.

Dell not yet, but I can see it happening. The big issue is that their original raison d’etre was being cheap, not necessarily good or fast at all. It’s only been a few years that there’s been a move toward quality. My XPS 15 laptop is my favorite computer I’ve ever owned. I’ll put it up against ANY Mac laptop, and I’ve owned a couple dozen of them, in at least one of every form factor up until the last 2, going all the way back to THIS thing in 1987, the Apple-licensed Walkmac:

I prefer everything about the Dell XPS 15 to every Mac laptop I’ve owned — the speed, the rubberized deck, its solidity, the keyboard, and, yes, the gorgeous 4K touchscreen. It’s absolutely hilarious to me to sit around with my all-Apple family, we’re all just goofing around and talking while we’re checking email (a very tech-y family at that, including a couple who worked in upper-level exec positions at Apple) and watch them start touching their own computer screens and being surprised and frustrated when nothing happens.

So, I vastly prefer it to any of couple dozen Mac laptops I’ve owned, but do I have brand loyalty to Dell yet? Not really, because I remember all the years that they were exploiting Moore’s Law and just-in-time component sourcing to intentionally build computers that were only worth keeping around for a few months, if they actually lasted that long….which was by no means a given.

Nowadays, a different story, but I bought mine based on my wife’s experience with HER XPS 15 from the year before, so this is where I’ll start the search for my next one when the time comes….but to our communal observation here, mine’s 2 years old, and still bouncing off the walls like a little puppy. It already has T3 of course (common on the Win side long before Mac of course), so I don’t foresee shopping for a new computer for quite a while.

And Walter, to your earlier observation about iDevices and MacBooks in the NY design community — I’ll add my own observation as a developer for both Mac-only and multiplatform companies is that there’s no more iDevoted people on earth. Much moreso than Hollywood, which has a reputation as a Mac-centric town that simply isn’t warranted. TONS of Windows in Hollywood, especially in VFX, finishing, and animation, and far more than you’d think in creative editorial, too. NY design, otoh is still the Big Apple. ????

[Andy Patterson]

[Walter Soyka] “I see significant HP brand loyalty in production, and I have a good amount of it myself. I guess it depends where you look.”

With HP I don’t think it is brand loyalty as much as they are trying to market their products for professionals and offer good products. If HP did away with PCIe slots and ATX style work stations and only offered a 2013 Mac Pro clone I think you would agree many folks would jump ship to Dell. There is a difference between brand loyalty and a company having a good product for your workflow. If HP hypothetical did as I suggested am sure you would agree HP would get backlash beyond belief. Apple did get some backlash with the 2013 Mac Pro but many Apple users thought since it is Apple it has got to be good. I was not impressed myself. A workstation should offer the option for dual CPUs and PCIe expansion slots in my opinion. There are some Apple users who went Hackintosh because of the 2013 Mac Pro. I don’t blame them.

[Andrew Kimery]

[andy patterson] “If HP hypothetical did as I suggested am sure you would agree HP would get backlash beyond belief. Apple did get some backlash with the 2013 Mac Pro but many Apple users thought since it is Apple it has got to be good. I”

Moving from HP to Dell is a seamless move for the user though. Switching from Mac to PC (or PC to Mac) is much more of a hassle. If Dell or HP could make Apple clones I guarantee that they would’ve picked up a lot of business after Apple released the nMP. Scratch that, they would’ve picked up a lot of business around 2011-2012 when people were grumbling about the lack of updates to the cMP.

I’d say a lot of people moved away from the nMP (either staying with the cMP, buying an iMac, building a Hack or switching to Windows) because the fallout was enough to get Apple to publicly state they goofed and that they are working on a more flexible, upgradeable MP. How often has Apple done that?

Considering the hassle of switching platforms I think a more apt comparison is platform loyalty, not brand loyalty.

[Andy Patterson]

[Andrew Kimery] “[andy patterson] ” I don’t see loyalty to HP or Dell although there may be a few. Keep in mind there is a difference between real facts and pure personal bias.”

While now dated, have you ever heard the phrase, “Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM?” Do you remember the Zune Tattoo Guy? There are certainly a lot of Windows/PC loyalists that wouldn’t be caught dead with anything made by Apple. Maybe you hang around too many Mac-centric places so you don’t notice, but get around a more general cross section of the computing user base (which is still by and large PC users) or go to PC-centric places and you’ll certainly run into those that vehemently prefer PCs (or as they are known in gaming circles, The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race ;)).”

There is a difference between brand loyalty and a product that is better than another for certain tasks. I don’t remember the Zune guy. I know people who buy Dell, Lenovo and HP with no loyalty. There are gaming fans who would never buy an Apple computer but that is because a custom built PC is a much better option for gaming. Even Apple users would admit to that. If a product is better for a certain work flow don’t confuse it with brand loyalty. I made response prior to your post that if HP did away with their current line of computers and only offered a 2013 Mac Pro clone they would get backlash as opposed to loyalty. As of now HP makes good products that work for many professional and non professional work flows. Don’t confuse brand loyalty with a brand that actually makes a good product.