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Is this why the new Mac Pro has been taking so long?
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[Dominic Deacon] “That’s more refering to their preference of a desktop over a console. “
My reference was more gaming-centric, but in my overall experience with people (both in real life and on various Mac and PC forums) I can’t say I’ve noticed once demo being inherently more clueless and/or platform loyal than the other.
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[Walter Soyka] “As Oliver mentions, the Surface is a fantastic small laptop, but I certainly understand why people would prefer the iPad form factor.”
Yeah, I find my ipad pro to finally be what I had always wanted in a work tablet, largely because its about the size and feel of a pad of paper. Paired with the pen and Microsoft’s OneNote, it works really well for me. OneNote is actually a pretty amazing piece of software.
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[Chris Harlan] “OneNote is actually a pretty amazing piece of software.”
Can you go into a bit more detail? I’m thinking about switching to OneNote from Evernote. I like Evernote’s features, they have made some policy changes that I don’t like so I’m thinking of migrating to OneNote.
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Sure! Or at least I can tell you what I like about it. First, I’m old school and like to take meeting notes with a pen, which onenote makes easy. It doesn’t translate them, but I’m not looking for that. It syncs those notes with the copy of onenote on my desktop. It clips and stores various objects quite well–images, files, spreadsheets, etc. Its got a browser plugin that lets me pluck any site and insert the content into my notes, either as a link or as a pasted version of the actual html. It also stores any kind of standard document file and allows you to open them in preview or the original program.
One of the best things, from my POV, is it allows pen and print to overlap. I use this all the time. I open a script and can use the pencil as either a multicolored highlighter or a pen to notate my work just like I used to on paper. So, quickly reviewing a script, I might mark out all sound cues with blue highlighter, all VO with green, specific tc call outs with yellow, etc. Then, as I work, I can use a pen to check off things I’ve done. Its great to work with notes this way too. And all of this will be backed up in cloud and on my desktop for further editing or reference.
There’s more, of course. But that’s how I use it. Its the easy mingling of pen and type, plus the fluidity of the notebook-like hierarchical organization that makes it work for me. Its very freeform, but very organized. And, with the ipad pro, its very responsive.
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[Walter Soyka] “I don’t know the difference between an LGA 1151 and LGA 2011.”
I believe its 860.
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Well now that we know [today] the Mac Pro is being rethought/redesigned for a potential 2018 release, shall we consider this Mac Pro in the esteem of the Mac Cube? I still love the current Mac Pro by the way, but good for Apple for realizing it must pivot in a different direction.
Good read:
https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
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[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “By not making OS X touch screen compatible Apple is losing out. ”
I’m not sure the numbers bear that out. Yes, iPad sales aren’t increasing, but they still beat other tablets.”
People are becoming hip to what the Surface Pro has to offer. Especially the Surface Studio. The Surface Studio will drop in price and get even better.
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “Without an i7 and OS X the iPad cannot meet the needs of many creative professionals.”
I don’t see many creatives clamoring to use a tablet as their main computer. So it’s really a non-issue.”
I think you are kind of stuck on video editors. People that use Photoshop and Illustrator user the Surface Pro to draw on. The Surface Studio is even better. I remember when the iPad launched and they showed people using the iPad as a sketch pad. Many people do the same thing with the Surface Pro. That is why MS made the Surface Studio to make the interaction even better.
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “With the Surface Pro you only need one device.”
Baloney. You’re the guy arguing for a hot-rodded machine to do RED Raw at 8K natively in real-time. Not exactly in the Surface’s wheelhouse. So a single machine doesn’t actually serve all the needs.”
You had stated at times you had to chose between your iPad and Macbook. You left that part out of the quote. With the Surface Pro you have one device that can work as a laptop or a tablet. No need to buy two products. You can edit 4K using the Surface Pro. You will not see it playback at full resolution. That is why having a beefy system is still needed by a select few. Keep in mind I stated for many people a laptop will work OK. You forgot to mention that. It should not be hard to comprehend that everyone will have different editing needs and Apple should offer solutions to meet those needs. I stand by that statement but I never stated everyone needs to edit 8K R3D files. Try to comprehend what I am actually saying instead of what you think I am saying.
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “You are actually proving my point. ”
How do you figure that? I use the iPad when traveling in the case that I didn’t need to edit on-site. It’s a purpose-designed device and I use it accordingly.”
Once again you left out the part about choosing between the iPad and Macbook. With the Surface Studio you only need one device. You can use it as a tablet if you use the Metro GUI or you can use it a laptop if you have a keyboard connected. The iPad cannot function in two different modes and does not support a desktop OS. You do realize the Surface Pro uses Windows 10 64 bit don’t you?
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “Why would a PC user switch to an inferior product? ”
Again, we’re talking about iPads. So it just seems like you don’t understand its market.”
There is not a market for the iPad anymore other than loyal Apple customers buying it. As I stated people do use the Surface Studio as a sketch pad for Illustrator. Why would the creative professionals that use Adobe’s CC opt for an iPad over the Surface Pro? Illustrator does not work on the iPad. Let me put it to you like this. What if the Surface Pro used a 32 bit Cellphone CPU from 3 years ago and also ran a 32 bit OS. Then you might have to say I use my Dell laptop for some things and my Surface Pro for other things. Don’t get me wrong. In another two years Apple will either have iOS on all their devices or OS X on all their devices. Some Apple users talk about the great integration between iOS and OS X. Why bother? On the Windows side there is simply one OS that does it all. Does it kind of make sense now?
I know of several Apple users who still have an iMac but opted for the Surface Studio over the iPad Pro. Even Leo Laporte who once was a big Apple loyalist loved the Surface Studio and even stated there is no need to opt for an iPad over the MS Surface Pro. Many people have criticized Apple about the iPad still using a mobile OS. Leo even said Windows 10 is awesome. Many people think MS is doing a better job at giving graphic designers a more useful product than Apple. If you don’t want to believe me you don’t have to. I am just telling you like it is. Having said that please explain to me why an Apple iPad Pro would be a better option than a MS Surface Pro? Keep in mind the iPad/iOS incorporated things from the Windows Metro GUI.
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[Michael Gissing] “No its a nuisance because unlike DNx codecs it is proprietary and can’t be easily used on all platforms and NLE software. And not everyone wants it as a deliverable. I have noticed recently that broadcasters are asking first for AVC Intra codecs wrapped as .mxf. ProRes is down the list so I guess they are shifting away from Mac hardware and software too which is pertinent to this thread.
So I agree that it became a defacto standard but I am seeing a trend away from ProRes and QT wrapping.”
Seems to me the era of whoever’s doing the content delivery having to set the delivery codec is kinda ending.
The rise of the pubic facing CDNs like Vimeo and YouTube already take a variety of input types – then do their own transcoding and create “tiered deliverables” to satisfy the devices that will attach to the streams.
THAT’s where this is going, I think.
Even for a high end movie deliverable, if what Michael Cioni referred to as your “digital O-neg” is parsable, and stores adequate resolution and color descriptives, then from that point on, the files – including the metadata described “master” should be able to be transcoded as needed for any target deliverable.
Much easier than making a million producers figure out just WHICH deliverable standard works best for all the downstream folks.
This seems like something that just won’t be a very big deal as time goes on.
FWIW.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “People are becoming hip to what the Surface Pro has to offer. Especially the Surface Studio”
The Surface Pro and Studio have completely different objectives. Just because they have touch in common doesn’t mean they are simple variations of the same product.”
I never stated they are the same thing. You should be able to look at the bigger picture without my guidance. Many iMac users have stated the Surface Studio is way better than their iMac when using Adobe’s CC. Once the price of the Surface Studio drops you may have iMac users opting for the Surface Studio instead of an iMac like some have opted for the Surface Pro over the iPad. Does it make sense now?
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “I think you are kind of stuck on video editors.”
Not at all. I actually see very few folks with iPads or Surfaces. The ones with Surfaces (which also includes my daughter) are largely using them as a lighter laptop. Professionally these include ad agency creatives. Sure, drawing may be part of it, but not for much other than doodling on glass instead of paper.”
Don’t include your daughter. As I have stated some Apple users have opted for the Surface Pro because it runs the Adobe CC. The iPad cannot. With the Surface Studio MS has offered a better solution for Adobe’s CC users than Apple’s iMac. As I stated earlier some iMac users (not all) that have Adobe’s CC have stated once the price drops on the Surface Studio they will get one. I am not a fan of all in one computers like the iMac but the interaction of Surface Studio with the Surface Dial even got my attention.
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “You had stated at times you had to chose between your iPad and Macbook. You left that part out of the quote. With the Surface Pro you have one device that can work as a laptop or a tablet. No need to but two products. ”
That’s because it’s irrelevant. I want two different products because they service different purposes. The iPad is light to travel with (lighter and less cumbersome than the Surface) and does what I need. If I need to edit, then I bring the laptop. The alternative option for me might have been the small MacBook, but then that would be more challenged for editing.”
If the iPad had OS X with touch screen support and an i7 you would not need two device. Do people bring a touch screen Dell Laptop and a Surface Pro both? Do you finally see my point? I don’t doubt in a few years Apple will have all their products use either iOS (total revamp) or OS X (total revamp) but not both.
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] ” You can edit 4K using the Surface Pro. You will not see it playback at full resolution. That is why having a beefy system is still needed by a select few”
I can edit 4K on my MacBook Pro AND see it at full resolution. Plus I can connect USB3 and Tbolt external drives.”
So can the Surface Pro if you opt for MJPEG. Are you editing Camera RAW 4K files or R3D files at full 4K? If so are you connect to a 4K monitor. If not you might as well watch 4K at draft quality as opposed to full resolution.
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “You can use it as a tablet if you use the Metro GUI or you can use it a laptop if you have a keyboard connected. The iPad cannot function in two different modes and does not support a desktop OS. You do realize the Surface Pro uses Windows 10 64 bit don’t you? ”
I personally hate the Metro GUI and yes, I know it can run W10. In general, I’m not enamored with a touch GUI to start with, but it’s functional on the iPad. Sony’s Catalyst products and changes made to Premiere Pro to address touch interfaces in order to provide cross-platform support, have made parts of those interfaces worse when using these apps on standard high-resolution desktop and laptop screens. The UI design is needlessly “horsey” as a result. This is part of the justification for a macOS/iOS separation and I think Apple has been quite successful with it.”
The fact that you hate the Metro GUI is of no importance. As I have stated the Surface Pro can run the Adobe CC software the iPad cannot. Sony’s Catalyst is a none issue for an iPad user opting for the Surface Pro. Some parts of the GUI for audio and video can be useful when used with a thouch screen but not all parts are.
[Oliver Peters] “The UI design is needlessly “horsey” as a result. This is part of the justification for a macOS/iOS separation and I think Apple has been quite successful with it.”
You don’t have to use the Metro Mode on a MS 10 desktop, laptop or tablet. You can use the Metro GUI for certain programs and the Desktop GUI for other programs. What you don’t have to do is buy two devices (iPad iMac). How is the iPad not being capable of running Illustrator a success? As I stated many CC users are finding the iPad Pro very limited for their needs because it uses iOS. As I have stated you can use all Windows 10 tablets like a tablet or a laptop/desktop by simply adding a keyboard. I can run Premiere Pro on the Surface Pro in Desktop mode. No need for a laptop and tablet both. See my point? Keep in mind IPads and Macbooks are not inexpensive. How is buying two devices and spending more money successful?
[Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “If you don’t want to believe me you don’t have to. I am just telling you like it is. Having said that please explain to me why an Apple iPad Pro would be a better option than a MS Surface Pro?”
It’s not a question of belief. Show me the numbers.
I don’t have numbers. I told you what Leo Leporte (Apple Loyalist) had stated. You can find Youtube videos of Apple users opting for the Surface Pro over the iPad and even stating the Surface Studio is better than their iMac for thier needs. I have friends that love Apple but admit the iOS/OS X paradigm is not a slick as the Windows 10 Metro Mode and Desktop Mode GUI paradigm.
[Oliver Peters] “As I’ve said all along, these two products are aimed at different objectives, which is something you aren’t willing to accept.”
I am willing to accept there are Apple loyalist that will use Apple products even if they are inferior. I am not saying the iPad will not work OK for some people’s needs. What I am saying time and time again is that Apple is loosing customers because of the MS Surface Studio and Surface Pro. That is something you are not willing to admit. I don’t doubt after the launch of the Surface Studio Apple wishes OS X had touch screen support.
[Oliver Peters] ” Whether or not you or I might want Apple to produce a different product is not important. Apple is going to produce the best product for the market that it is trying to address – or in some cases – create.”
I agree. Apple does what is best for Apple. That is what allows me to make my honest criticisms.
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[Walter Soyka] “I carry both a Surface Pro 3 and an iPad Air 2 — and I got the iPad after I got the SP3. I used my Surface as a tablet for a while, but it’s pretty chunky and heavy in comparison with an iPad. As Oliver mentions, the Surface is a fantastic small laptop, but I certainly understand why people would prefer the iPad form factor.”
I never stated an iPad will not work for some people. I have always stated for those iPad users who use Adobe’s Creative Cloud some have opted for the Surface Pro. Please address what I am saying (no strawmen please). Many iPad users have also bought the Surface Pro. If the iPad Pro ran all the CC products the Apple users I am talking about would never have bought the Surface Pro. Why would they? Apple is giving MS money by not meeting their customers needs. Also some iMac users have stated once the price of the Surface Studio drops they will replace their iMac with a Surface Studio. That is my main point. I am not saying the iPad will not work for a college student writing term papers and surfing the internet nor have I ever suggested that. Let me put it to you like this. Do you think people with the MS Surface Studio are thinking “next year I am going to get an iMac”? Do you see my point?
For some people the iPad Pro will work OK. If you want a tablet that can run the Adobe CC software in desktop mode by simply connecting a keyboard the iPad may not be a good choice. Would you agree with that?
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