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I think the time of the large tower are coming to an end – and the bloated software suits with it :-)
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[Steve Connor] “Viewer window, PIOPs, RED Workflow, roles and more. These are clearly responses to customer requests”
Steve, While this is true, these are nearly all of them are catch up requests or innovative workarounds to the way all other NLE’s work. So, while I agree that Apple is listening (Avid and others too), in their case they are putting BACK features that existed in FCP7. I think it’s an important difference. BTW – I don’t know what PIOPs are, so maybe I’m wrong on that one…
[Steve Connor] “Adobe have some holes in Premiere, Dennis tells us they are being worked on, but in real terms we’re not being told WHEN things are going to fixed or changed in PPro are we?”
Steve – quite honestly, any publicly traded company cannot announce when things come because of Sarbanes-Oxley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act As it is, we are public about saying that Adobe is on a yearly release cycle. Of all the major NLE vendors I think most people would agree that Apple does not win the blue ribbon for best communication historically. I can’t say it any more politely than that! 😉
I see that you’ve made a choice for FCP X and that’s great and I’m not trying to disuade you. I hope I am being a respectful part of the community and contributing to the knowledge and craft of our industry. Nothing more.
Thanks for chiming in.
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[Bill Davis] “However, if the Thunderbolt roadmap develops through planned versions 2 and 3 (optical/copper hybrid and then full optical) the entire I/O pipeline will change”
ThB right now is certainly just a taste of what future versions will offer (though going full optical will mean no bus powered devices so I think copper will always be there if for no other reason than that). For a while now I’ve been speculating that Apple would offer something like a Mac Mini Pro with a number of ThB ports for expansion. A basic platform, if you will, and they’ll leave it up to third parties to built ThB compatible storage, PCI extenders, etc., for expansion. Sounds kinda familiar, no? And it would certainly lower Apple’s overhead from a manufacturing perspective to just offer a small ‘base unit’ and leave expansion up to after market gear.
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[Dennis Radeke] “While this is true, these are nearly all of them are catch up requests or innovative workarounds to the way all other NLE’s work. So, while I agree that Apple is listening (Avid and others too), in their case they are putting BACK features that existed in FCP7.”
True in some respects, but that’s not all they are doing, take Roles for an example, you could call them an innovative workaround or you could call them an important new way of managing a timeline that has excellent potential.
[Dennis Radeke] “As it is, we are public about saying that Adobe is on a yearly release cycle. Of all the major NLE vendors I think most people would agree that Apple does not win the blue ribbon for best communication historically. I can’t say it any more politely than that! ;-)”
True, but what I’m saying is that in reality Adobe aren’t actually TELLING us anything beyond the fact that you are listening and that you know the areas that need to be addressed, even if some of them have been problems for considerably more than one release cycle.
[Dennis Radeke] “I see that you’ve made a choice for FCP X and that’s great and I’m not trying to disuade you”
Yes I have, but I’m a Creative Cloud subscriber too and I also use PPro for occasional jobs too. I was also Premiere user from Version 5 to 6.5
[Dennis Radeke] “I hope I am being a respectful part of the community and contributing to the knowledge and craft of our industry.”
You absolutely are and you are a very welcome member of this community.
Steve Connor
‘It’s just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure” -
For the on the road editor or just someone with a simple setup and the machine in the same room the big tower approach makes less sense now with Thunderbolt. But a facility with machine rooms, shared storage and need for lots of PCI cards, big towers with many slots makes more sense in my opinion.
I have been frustrated by the lack of slots in my MacPro and it is partly behind my reasoning to switch back to Win & PC hardware. Thunderbolt on a Mac doesn’t solve those problems but I can see the appeal for a one man edit setup.
Software magically seems to bloat with increased hardware processing power. My old DOS based audio edit system, dSP used to fit the GUI and operating software on a single floppy and edit as fast as my latest Fairlight on a Win 7, i7 grunt box.
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[Chris Harlan] “It first appeared on decidedly non-pro machines, and works very well as a docking station for those machines”
Intel’s design determined what machines would get it which is why no MacPro with Thunderbolt as of yet.
“Consumers” would be well served with USB3 and again Apple waited until Intel put that on the motherboard.Given the cost of Thunderbolt devices, there’s still not much in the way of use for them. Maybe single hard drives in which USB3 is less expensive and, where speed isn’t needed, USB2 is fine? Passing through to a monitor? Or are you thinking consumers are spending $1000 For 27″ Thunderbolt monitors to hook up to their MacMinis?
Thunderbolt, at this point, is designed for content creators.
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[Shane Ross] “That’s it. Thunderbolt is as 4x right now.”
And besides GPU, right now, 4x is pretty good.
You can capture 1080p60 video over Thunderbolt and have the drive speed to do so.
Right now, 4x gets a “bad rap” in it’s supposed incompetence, but right now, 4x is pretty damn fast.
For broadcast work, it’s plenty.
GPU is another issue.
Intel is working on parallel CPUs in a product called Phi (https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/44185).
This would in my limited knowledge allow more processing power to attach through PCIe without much fuss.
As Thunderbolt increases in speed, these will increase computing pipe speed, and (theoretically) allow you to add more processors to whatever client host you have. Right now, you’d need a Xeon processor for Phi. Need more? Add more. Don’t have any more PCIe slots? Add more external Thunderbolt boxes.
In theory anyway,
Jeremy
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What happens to Thunderbolt if Apple abandons Intel for another processor?
Michael
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We vaporize in to a pile of goo.
we will never make it out alive
!
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Seems to me with legacy I utilized mpegstreamclip, plural eyes, and Sony XDCam transfer just to make it operate at a pro level. Or sometimes operate at all. For X I use 7 to X, just to play with the idea (which has been nearly pointless for anything but simple cuts and dissolves), and event X which is completely a luxury item and not neccessary.
My bmd box provides tape in/out if I need it, which I don’t see happening.
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It’s not just about speed, it’s also about compatibility. Atto’s latest adapters (ExpressSAS H6F0 GT) won’t even work in a 4x slot anymore, it needs 8x.
Other cards will follow, it is just a question of time.[Jeremy Garchow] “And besides GPU, right now, 4x is pretty good.
You can capture 1080p60 video over Thunderbolt and have the drive speed to do so.
Right now, 4x gets a “bad rap” in it’s supposed incompetence, but right now, 4x is pretty damn fast.
For broadcast work, it’s plenty.”
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