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Has Adobe lost their minds????
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I have to concur with Mike on this thread – the new upgrade pricing is just plain idiotic! You’re making previous customers pay for software they may already have(Photoshop/Illustrator) in order to upgrade their video products. And the new software is useless to people who don’t want or need the additional software because it can’t be installed and activated unless you already own an older copy!(unlike Micosoft which is pretty generous on bundle installation allowing Word users to upgrade to Office)
Then there’s the UPGRADE price!!! $499 for the standard bundle!?! $649 for Pro bundle!?! Who inside Adobe approved this? The new apps are great and huge improvements to workflow, specially Premiere Pro – but you’ve negated months and months of beta testing and engineering in one fell swoop! Adobe must know there are competing products out there – none of which offers such a bizarre upgrade path. It’s going to be interesting to see how all this shakes out but I suspect some firings are coming soon at Adobe.
Jeez, my names all over the Adobe press releases – I’m embarrassed and would never have signed a release had I known this mega-blunder was in the works.
Lance Bachelder
Southern California
Cow Forum Host- Magic BulletApple Dual 2Ghz G5 ATIx800, 2.5GB RAM, OSX Tiger FCP Studio
Intel P4, 2GB RAM, PNY 6600GT XP Pro – Vegas 6 Studio -
Everytime Adobe announces new bundles I really feel left behind, this time even more.
I own Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium, Adobe Digital Video Collection, After Effects 6.5 Pro & Premiere 6.5 (which I bought seperately), and still I cannot use the lowest priced upgrade solution.
I’m even more surprized at the strange price differences between US & European customers (and I’m not talking about exchange and tax rates here):
Example:
upgrade from Video Collection Pro to Production Studio Premium: US$649.00 / 649.00 EURO
upgrade from Video Collection Std to Production Studio Premium: US$799.00 / 849.00 EURO ???
upgrade from Creative Suite 2 Pre to Production Studio Premium: US$999.00 / 999.00 EURO
upgrade from PremPro, PS or AEpro to Production Studio Premium: US$1249.00 / 1449.00 EURO ???IMHO: customers who bought different Suites/Collections/Upgrades in the past should really get a special deal here. I’m wondering when Adobe will annouce the Super Bundle, with all web, video & print apps in it, so they can attract new customers for little money.
Another strange thing: US customers get the Production Studio product on DVD-rom, while Europeans still get a box full of CD’s 🙂
As a long time Adobe customer (for over 10 years now), and with all these Suite/Studio/Collection releases, I as a single individual have about 3 Photoshop licenses right now…. I don’t see any need for such luxuary 🙂
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personally I thought adobe was insane when they offered an upgrade from AE 6 to 6.5 for only $99 (that was the original price in the first month or so). How does a comaopny make any money doing that?
Having worked for several software companies, I recognize that a lot of work goes into the development of a product, and it costs time and money to do that. Adobe has made some huge leaps forward with this release, and for what their charging for an upgrade on several products at once is a pretty good price, even if it’s more than the last time around (which I thought was also insanely cheap).
I have several computers to upgrade, and I never look forward to paying for an upgrade, but I recognize that it’s a good price, and more importantly, worth the money.
Anyway, it’s just my 2 cents.
Aharon
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Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
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Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com -
I don’t have Photoshop CS2 or Illustrator CS2. I was holding out for a video package I hoped would have both (and I was right). Since as a video artist, both older versions of the software (CS) do what I need, I figured that when the Video Collection (now the Production Studio) came out, it would have what I needed. If not, I’d suck it up and buy what I needed.
No one said it was cheap to be work in this industry. If you shelled out 20K last year on software, you had to feel it was worth it.
I’m more curious about people that don’t use AE pro. The standard version is a way for people to save money while owning AE, but if you aren’t using the pro version, you probably aren’t doing Pro level work. That’s not a crack at the ability of the people who own it – rather it’s a comment that you need pro tools to do pro work, and that people buying the standard versions of the software, are probably not in a production market, which requires the tools in the pro version.
Yes you can do nice stuff, but to really compete, there are abunch of tools in the pro version that you need. Displacement maps, 3D integration with other programs, keying tools, a lot of effects, plus a whole bunch more…
There are plenty of low-cost tools for Audio editing and DVD making, but the ones that come with a pro package are meant for people in a pro market. If you’re trying to save money becasue you aren’t doing this as a pro – find software that fits within your budgetary needs.
If you’re spending 20K on software (which makes it sound like you do a lot of graphics and animation work), why would you choose to buy AE 7 standard? IF I’d spend any money as someone working with compositing effects and 3D, I’d make sure I had the best tools for the job.
really Not a crack at you, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from.
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Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
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Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com -
let me just be clear here. While I always want more from software, I think Adobe has done an incredible job. On so many levels, they have listened to their customers’ needs. And while they couldn’t address everything people wanted, they’ve given us a very power package.
I hate paying money for anything, but I don’t feel nearly as bad about this upgrade as I do for other companies that make MINOR imporvements and charge you an arm and a leg. And you have to buy those just to be able to exchange files.
Yeah, it would be great if adobe only charged us a few bucks for the upgrade, but being realistic, it’s a good proce for an upgrade on not one but 4 (or more, depending) great products! And the changes the’ve made are not minor. There are several new features comperable to plugins that each cost almost as much as the upgrade price for the entire Production Studio package!
I’ll tell you what i tell my students when they ask why they should need to buy things like big hard drives – professional multimedia is not for people not willing to spend money – You can make a lot of money at it, and if you feel it’s not worth the money then don’t do it. That said, while adobe isn;t giving it away, this is a fair price for some good software.
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Aharon Rabinowitz
aharon(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
http://www.allbetsareoff.com
—————————————-
Creative Cow Master Series DVD
particleIllusion Fusion Volume 1
available @ http://www.pIllusionFusion.com -
“””I don’t have Photoshop CS2 or Illustrator CS2.”””
I do already have them and I was only interested to see what was new in the core apps.
“””If you shelled out 20K last year on software, you had to feel it was worth it.”””
I always look at how I can increase workflow. It is always a balance with upgrades (new features and does the upgrade provide compelling value). For example. I did not upgrade my combustion 3 licenses (both mac and PC) from 3 to 4 because the new feature set was very weak (to me). The diamond keyer is a crutch and the standard keyer has more control. So I passed.
“””I’m more curious about people that don’t use AE pro. The standard version is a way for people to save money while owning AE, but if you aren’t using the pro version, you probably aren’t doing Pro level work.”””
For compositing I’m now focused on node based workflows. Shake 4 on the Mac and Fusion 5 on the PC (I am using the 8 bit DFX+5, but I also have another DFX+4 license I might upgrade to a full Fusion 5). After Effects Pro is a good app, but after getting a taste of node based flows I am not as keen to use AE except for some text effects and other situational motion graphics that are better dealt with in a layer based comp. But even then I lean towards Combustion 3 because I can do the same comps faster in combustion because the interface is much better laid out to get work done fast.
My original interest in the video collection was geared more towards Encore DVD, then Premiere Pro, then After Effects, then Audition (order of importance). After Effects has never been the deciding factor. I was very impressed with the integration of Encore and Photoshop for rapid menu creation as well. At the time I was looking for an all in one solution and Adobe fit the bill (at the time).
“””Yes you can do nice stuff, but to really compete, there are abunch of tools in the pro version that you need. Displacement maps, 3D integration with other programs, keying tools, a lot of effects, plus a whole bunch more…”””
Fusion has much deeper 3D integration. And Fusion’s particle system lets you work with 2D particles or full 3D particle systems. After Effects falls short of Fusion’s high end features.
“””If you’re spending 20K on software (which makes it sound like you do a lot of graphics and animation work), why would you choose to buy AE 7 standard? IF I’d spend any money as someone working with compositing effects and 3D, I’d make sure I had the best tools for the job.”””
You are focusing heavily on After Effects in this whole questioning process trying to understand where I am coming from, but I’m talking about the collection as a whole, not just After Effects. What it brings to the table as a package. I have all the high end compositing features covered with more capable apps for high end compositing (Shake/Fusion). My use of After Effects is for things it excels at like text effects and great plugins for quick cool effects (Trapcode Particular). I was really hoping for scripting support in Encore DVD and I’m really surprised at how watered down the new features are in this release. DVDSP and Sonic are lapping Adobe.. not by a nose, by an entire LAP.
Adobe’s collection is the tightest in the biz (in my opinion). Which is why I was really hoping to see ground breaking new features for a collection that has been in the lab for well over a year.
As I laid out above, my focus in the collection for new features was (in order of importance) Encore, PPro, AE, Audition.
“””Not a crack at you, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from.”””
I think my answers will shed some light on the fact why I don’t require the Pro version of AE. I have other apps that handle those feature sets much better (Shake/Fusion). If I didn’t I would agree with you that they are essential.
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
My business produces both video and print. I have been a staunch supporter of Adobe products for years. In fact I’ve never used a competing product (except for Flash when Live Motion development ended).
I own the following Adobe products:
Creative Suite 2 Premium
Premiere Pro 1.5
After Effects 6.5 Professional
Encore 1.5
Audition 1.5It looks like my lowest cost upgrade path is $999 because of Creative Suite 2 Premium. I can’t believe I wont get credit for owning actual video products. If I upgrade each of my video apps separately it will cost me $676, but that leaves me without the new Dynamic Link. So Dynamic Link would effectively cost me $323.
I really dislike the idea of paying twice for an application (i.e. Photoshop and Illustrator). Being forced into a bundle means this is exactly what I’ll have to do, since you can’t buy Dynamic Link by itself.
This is expensive enough to make me take pause and consider other options.I sincerely hope Adobe will consider more comprehensive updgrade paths.
Doug Jacobson
Steamboat Productions -
Steve,
It has been said many times but I’ll voice in as well.
Ive been on the upgrade path for a long time in individual products and only recently bought packages because it seemed the best economic choice. However, now the packages are overlapping more and more. I also owned the Macromedia products particularly Flash. As I understand, in order to stay on an upgrade path to protect my video package rights, I now have to purchase a second copy of Flash 8, Illustrator CS2, Photoshop CS2, Bridge CS2, and by the licencing agreement have 2 licenses for them but only be able to use them [4 second licenses] on one machine. That feels like … well, not right.
What is needed is a way a customer to be recognized for supporting your products in what ever packaging configuration; especially with the Macromedia merger, a way which recognizes existing rights ownership, to in order to remain in or repackage into an video bundle upgrade path.Might I suggest the ability the ability to receive rebates for current version licenses?
Rob
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Bottom Line,
Ask yourself one question…Is the cost to upgrade worth the new enhancements? Go print the new features list, lay down under your desk, read through it, Take a 20 minute nap, then make a decision.
If this new product helps your productivity even 5 percent the answer is yes. If you want to save your 200 bucks for version 8 or 10, Fine. But how much money will you save or earn in the next year or 2 at a poductivity rate enhancement of 5 percent.
Needless to say I’m sure my workflow will improve far more.
Andrew
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That’s not the point. All the new app’s are significant, much improved upgrades and those buying bundles for the first time should be very happy. But Adobe is attempting something no software company has ever done – charging you for software but not allowing you to use it. This is like trading in your old car for a new one with air conditioning (paying extra for the air) but not being allowed to turn it on because your trade-in didn’t have air. The only way to use the air would have been to not trade-in the old car and pay full price for the new one.
Lance Bachelder
Southern California
Cow Forum Host- Magic BulletApple Dual 2Ghz G5 ATIx800, 2.5GB RAM, OSX Tiger FCP Studio
Intel P4, 2GB RAM, PNY 6600GT XP Pro – Vegas 6 Studio
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