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Grinder Threatens Lawsuit
Ah, the world is a lovely place. The story: a web production referral client turns Grinder on me.
The invoice for the shoot went unpaid for over 60 days and the invoice for the edit went unpaid for 45+ days for a web commercial for one of their clients. After many requests for payment, I eventually get paid after I agreed to setup a PayPal account to facilitate the client’s wish to get frequent flyer miles via credit card. I’d walk away but I already shot part II (billed over 45 days ago–of course with no payment).
I suspect the reason they finally paid for part I was because they needed my services for part II. Because of the delinquent status of their account, I naturally requested to be paid in full for the shooting on part II and also a 50% up-front on the edit of part II because I really get the feeling they will follow the Grinder not Client protocol and drag their feet before (if ever) paying. In the typical Grinder MO, they are now beating me up on price for part II although we discussed it verbally and via email many many times.
Their client is super and easy to work with, so in an email to the Grinder I mentioned I’d be discussing this with their client (By “this” I mean the scope and length of part II). The Grinder took that as me wanting to go around his back and threatened to sue me. Here is the quote:
“You do and end around me with CLIENT NAME REMOVED and that will be the last video you get from this firm and I will sue you immediately for tortious interference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
If you don’t know what that means, Grinder followed with this:
“I suggest your educate yourself on what that means! https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/tortious+interference”
I’m looking for advice on how to solve this problem. I like the client the video is for, but I certainly have no desire to ever do work with this web production company ever again. Does Grinder have a case? If I refuse to do work until their account is paid in full, would he have legal grounds to sue saying I’m holding up his business? I’d be willing to settle for less money for part II (paid up front) just to walk away from the Grinder once the project is complete if necessary. Do I need to seek legal advice yet?
The numbers are (discounted since I thought this would turn into a repeat client–huh!)
Video #1 cost them a total of $1700. Video #2 will cost the same with $500 of that for the shoot that they were invoiced for on 5/6.
Thanks in advance!
-J -
22 Replies
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No disclosure, non-compete or any other contract that says you can’t market?
No worries.
You can’t be expected to work for free either and the way you bill is up to you… not them.
Sounds like you should just weed them out of the equasion and makle more money by doing work for the actual client while saving them a lot of money.
I’d certainly never provide a service for a douche that threatens a brother with a law suit.
I’ve said it before… sometimes the best way to avoid being burned is not not lay down on a burning bed.
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Amen to that. If I knew this place was so dickish I would have never agreed to work with them. Most of my clients pay net 30 or quicker, so this is new to me and like I said, I’ll never do work with them again.
Their client is happy with the video I produced so far and I’d like to complete the next (and final) video for them but the trick I’m trying pull off now is getting paid upfront to finish… oh and not get sued.
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If you do not have a work for hire and don’t care about burning a bridge with that company and potentially other companies that the production company does business with, by all means contact that end client directly.
Just remember that production communities are small. Everyone knows everyone else somewhere along the way. Depending on the reputation of that other production company, it will be your word against theirs as to who was the wrong party in this thing.
I’ve had folks do an end around with my company as well. How I deal with that is a case by case basis. Your reputation is everything in this business so tread lightly. Whatever you do, do NOT take the low road and say anything negative publicly to anyone who matters. Always keep your words and actions professional. This one piece of advice saved my entire company and my reputation from a person who tried to smear my name to clients.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.
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Walter, I wasn’t very clear in my post–I have no intention of doing an end around in any way shape or form. I do not want to do business directly with the end customer. I truly just want to finish this project and leave it be and never look back.
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Well that does clear things up a bit. And it sounds like a very good plan. 🙂
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.
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Wow, for a second, I thought the title read: GRINNER threatens lawsuit! 🙂
The lawsuit threat is likely a bluff: if he had the money to throw away on a lawyer to file the suit, he’d more than have enough money to pay you off. Wouldn’t he? You might phrase your response to him that way.
The Cowboy Way or Bushido Code or whatever you want to call it, is loathe to end-run around the guy to bid the client directly, even if he is a tool. It’s just not cricket.
However, that is different from warning that end client that this contractor is a problem payer. He’s no doubt marking up your work on his bill by quite a large margin, and doesn’t want the final client to know. Your counter-threat can lay out that you don’t want the guy’s business but if pressed WILL communicate to make clear what the facts of the case are.
Your request for money up front has disrupted the grinder’s carefully structured financial deal; whatever interest-bearing scheme he’s parked the money in will no doubt have penalties for early withdrawal, thus your request has put a dent in Mister Big’s boat payment, when he pulls the money to pay you.
I say sit tight and stick to your guns regarding payment. Delivery is your only leverage.
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Thanks for the info guys–always a pleasure being here. I really need to participate more at the Cow instead of just reading.
Ok, back to the story.
After a careful email on my part I’ve diffused the situation to a more reasonable level of loathing for both parties. They are willing to pay me, but there is some mumbo jumbo about why they can’t pay me until the end customer pays them first. I think I get frustrated because I expect that other people are as prompt in paying hired hands I am. Unless we are talking a giant sum of money, I would never dream of paying people after I get paid. This isn’t a tiny company either and my thinking is that your lack of liquid working capital doesn’t necessitate me working without pay.
Mark is right. Mr. Big wants to keep his money parked and he doesn’t want me to bill the end client directly because the end client would then learn the amount this service is being marked up.
Perhaps I should re-invoice for the shoot with terms of Net 14 and add a note that late payment results in a weekly penalty of 20%. I’ll also make it clear that I won’t start the post on this until the shoot is paid for and I get either 1/3 or 1/2 of post upfront. That at least makes my terms somewhat clearly written out if things go off-track.
I really hate all of this. I should be doing something creative instead tracking down small amounts of money from toxic clients. I guess my time was due as I’ve been extremely fortunate with my clients always paying promptly up until now and certainly won’t associate with this client once the project wraps.
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I talk like a bigshot on Creative Cow, but I know how uncomftorable this can be in real life, with a client. Since your client has made a “threat” to you, it really would not be that difficult to simply call the client, be VERY nice on the phone, and say “look, I love working for you guys, and I want to do a great job for you again, but there was a problem with payment last time, and I just want to make sure that I am going to get paid if I do this job”. Basically, appear to bow down to them, and see what they do. They may in fact say “you want to work for us, we will pay you when WE get paid, and we have no control over that” (I have been told this crap before). Then you do what you have to do. But be nice, don’t threaten, and feel them out. This is business – lie all you have to, to get your end result.
Bob Zelin
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What??? Zelin said something non-confrontational??? And it makes sense??? Bob, did you finally swear off the twelve pots of coffee a day?
Long and short of it is, don’t completely alienate these people (the web developers), just don’t work for them again. Just get paid first. If being subservient for now accomplishes that, so be it. Just blame it on someone else: “Geez, I’d like to, but my accountant says I need the cash flow THIS month.”
The good news is if in the end client knows who you are, they are likely to (OK… MAY) contact you directly in the future once they’ve figured out that their web developer is a d*ckhead.
Oh, and as to “tortious interference?” Give me a break! For anything under six figures that’s a pointless (and STUPID) bluff.
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[Bob Zelin] “This is business – lie all you have to, to get your end result.”
You have been, and always shall be, my hero.
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