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Grinder Threatens Lawsuit
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What kind of contract do you have with the Grinder? Any? It didn’t sound like there was anything more than emails, but that doesn’t mean there’s no legal obligation for either of you. I would (like a broken record) talk to a business attorney.
It’ll be worth talking to an attorney for a few bucks and see if they can do anything (or even need to do anything). If you go, bring printouts of any emails you have, paperwork, etc. – in fact, if you can briefly explain the situation on the phone (ie: I have a client who is slow on payment, I still have more work to do, they are being hostile and have threatened to sue, what do I do?).
Most attorneys will give you some kind of free consultation (30 min – 1 hour) and don’t forget to ask for their rates and whether they are charging you right now. Shop around if you’re not sure or get a referral from another business owner – call a couple clients or colleagues you trust.
Jonathan Ziegler
https://www.electrictiger.com/
520-360-8293 -
“Perhaps I should re-invoice for the shoot with terms of Net 14 and add a note that late payment results in a weekly penalty of 20%.”
Not a bad idea, Jeffrey… but you can only do that if this is a new job for which you have not hammered out the details or have a contract on yet (which this may be, I’m not sure).
As much as people (me included) would like to do so, you cannot by law retroactively decide to include late payment or finance charges. If you want to do that, it has to be done beforehand and stiuplated in the original contract. Usually the verbage is something like “Payments after due date are subject to finance charges up to the maxiumum allowed by state law.” It varies some from place to place, but in most states the max allowable finance charges are 25% a year (more than that is considered “usery”), so that’s why you see finance charges of 2% a month very commonly.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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“I have no intention of doing an end around in any way shape or form. I do not want to do business directly with the end customer. I truly just want to finish this project and leave it be and never look back. ”
Have you tried communicating this with the Grinder?
(It appears to me that Grinder has no business sense or experience. And that Google is his legal adviser).
Bottom line, your work for the Grinder is due on terms between you and Grinder. It’s not your problem that the Grinder can’t pay you until the client pays the Grinder.
Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com -
I agree, it sounds like your Grinder (this is now a term that I will use, by the way – for me a “grinder” was either a career card player a la Rounders or anyone just going through the motions of their life vs. really living) doesn’t realize he STILL HAS TO PAY – the deal isn’t between you and his client so whether or not his client pays is immaterial – the deal is between you and the grinder and when the work is done, he has to pay regardless of whether or not the grinder’s been paid.
Jonathan Ziegler
https://www.electrictiger.com/
520-360-8293 -
Bob – Well said. Unfortunately, I think that I’m the one being lied to this time. I’ll try to lie better… and more often going forward. I’m lying right now.
T2 – Thank you for the clarification regarding changing contracts around mid-stream. I supposed if people could change interest rates or late fees on a whim, we’d have chaos.
Jonathan – No contract pers se. I did work with them on one other project a couple of years ago so I figured things would be ok. Now that I think about it, last time I billed the end customer directly, otherwise I’m sure I would have realized this is a Grinder not a client back then. I’d like to thank Ron Lineboom for bringing the term Grinder to my vernacular. In case you missed it: https://magazine.creativecow.net/article/clients-or-grinders-understanding-the-three-market-types
Nick/Stephen – I have communicated with Grinder. He has calmed down now, so there is no longer the threat of being sued. He explained why he can’t pay me until his firm gets paid, but as we said his payment terms with his client are his and not mine.
Since there isn’t a contract I wonder if I can’t simply just walk away from this and if need be eat the $500 for the shoot? Maybe I can explain to him that I don’t accept those payment terms and that I will make the footage I shot available to him once his account is in good standing. That way he has to pay me for the shoot and I’ll be paid for the work I did so far and then everyone can go about with their merry little lives.
Am I nuts here or what? I suppose I could play by the Grinder’s rules and deliver this video and hope he is kind enough to pay me when his firm gets paid. Perhaps I’m making too much out of this. Would anyone shoot & edit and turn over a video with no payment up front and no set date for final payment? Man—I thought I was smarter than this!
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>>Whatever you do, do NOT take the low road and say anything negative publicly to anyone who matters. Always keep your words and actions professional.<< Walter's right. But it is not always easy to hold these things tight to the vest until your tell-all book comes out 😉 These are really weird times, and the grinders are out in force. The web dev/web design/production shops (as it sounds like you're dealing with) are especially getting beaten up pretty badly by clients. We've had two bankruptcies from clients, and one who just cut all their advertising and marketing and wonders why they're going out of business. However, a fair and honest digital agency will make sure to get their contractors paid- I always include our contractors' initial fees in the overall deposit we require from clients, so even if we get stiffed our contractors get paid for the time they've spent thus far on the project. It's the right thing to do, and if you're going to run a digital agency you need to play fair. If a client won't give enough of a deposit to cover contractor's (at least initial) costs, then we simply can't and won't accept them as a client. It sounds like the agency you're dealing with doesn't get that. Please don't think we're all like this, though. 🙂 I'm glad you're figuring out your situation, and I hope you hang on to those angry emails- we had a client who loved loved loved our work and said so in email after email, and told people we were great. Then she went off her meds and freaked when I told her we couldn't make $50K worth of changes to her project for $15K. She, like your grinder, threatened to sue and threatened to ruin our agency's name online unless we complied. Having those emails to present to her once her bender was over has been useful, and she now claims it was "all a misunderstanding". Whatever, right? Bottom line: protect yourself and your reputation. Walter's right: it's VITAL. --------------------- http://www.patrickortman.com
Web and Video Design -
Are you a man or a mouse? Go in there in your tightest muscle T and demand payment. I’ve done it dozens of times over three decades. Seem slightly unhinged. Works every time.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
http://www.bizvideo.com -
Without reading any of the other posts, I would go straight to the end client and ask for resolution. The Web Company is blowing smoke and can’t do anything. Sue them in small claims for non-payment.
If I were paying them and they were pulling that crap, I would want to know abut it and it wouldn’t be good for the middle man.
Gee whiz, Since I turned ?? on my last birthday, I now tolerate nothing at all. I am more upfront with clients and get paid quicker. Should have developed this attitude years ago.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards
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After reading the other comments, I say that the because web guy has already threatened a lawsuit, that relationship is now done.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards
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Ahhhh, with age comes wisdom, (well, most of the time anyway). As Winston Churchill once said, “too bad youth is wasted on the young”
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