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Fields
Hi there,
I am in video purgatopry again and need some advise how to handle fields in this case.
My client shot a documentary in 24 and did a 2:3 pulldown while capturing to 29.97.
So I have this nice half interlaced footage that looks ok on an NTSC screen.
Now I am in Europe and a local TV station bought the movie.
They were very helpful in providing their Teranex for the NTSC to PAL conversion, we tested it and it looks perfect.Now here is the problem :
I can´t find a suitable way of rendering or processing from DaVinci Resolve Mac that leaves the fields intact.
It always seem to interpolate and throw away one of the fields.
Any idea ? might rendering to a file based format in-between solve it ?A slice of color…
DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2×2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE -
10 Replies
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Here is an image that illustrates the problem, which is much bigger than i thought first.
The NTSC setting in Resolve is just weird I think.
The upper QT screenshot shows the video and setting I would like to recreate for the output.
A slice of color…
DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2×2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE -
Cant you use just full frames?
If it will look ok on pal then who needs fields. I seldom use fields any more.
Every body have lcd tv etc and they do not know fields mostly.DSLR and Red all make full frames. For tv i only use fcp to make upper field file but the material
on timeline is always progressive. Progressive feels more “filmic” 🙂—
Margus
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No , need them to solve the 24p – 29,97I – 25i madness.
The Teranwx needs a proper NTSC to reshuffle the cadence of the pulldown.
I just want Resolve to not scale my media.
And I am thinking the problem is the DV footage, rendering into EXR seems to work betterA slice of color…
DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2×2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE -
Sascha, have you tried outputting via the Decklink card to another source (such as a deck or another computer with a decklink installed) and recording that instead of rendering the output file in resolve. For all standard def stuff (including DV conversions) I’ve used this trick and it works perfectly for standard def field problems in resolve every time. Every time I render interlaced standard def in resolve I’ve gotten similar issues that you’ve been discussing in both PAL and NTSC, but the output via the decklink has always been perfect.
Chris Hall
Colorist – Basher Films
Pasadena, CA -
I agree, my multi format screen works in Pal and NTSC and it looks fine.
But my problem is, I have those three QTs, 655×480 res, which is the internal res of DV, and Media Express, FCP , Smoke and whatever is able to decode that and keep the fields intact.
I am at the case with the very helpful boys from BM already and they will be back after the weekend.
Sound like we are onto something.
For now its going to EXR and using that instead.A slice of color…
DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2×2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE -
if you don’t check “field render” in the settings of your project, then Resolve will ignore fields. As long as you don’t resize or blur, you’re good to go, you will get exactly the same fields out as what you put in. This work whatever the output format.
The minute you turn on “field render” in your settings, even without resizing or blurring, Resolve does strange things with your fields which lead to a huge loss of quality. I’ve taken the habit to resize out of resolve interlaced shots that need to be resized, and always work & render without field render.
Also, remember NOT to check “output fields when paused” in your settings. Otherwise you will see only half of the image.
good luck
Michael Cinquin
Final Cut Pro – Avid Media Composer editor
DaVinci – Color – Baselight colorist
Color profiles for Color
http://www.michaelcinquin.com/tools : tools for FCP | Color | RED | subtitles | Cinema Tools | Timecode – Keycode calculator -
Yes and all this is correct in theory but it doesnt work.
As I said, They are on it and it seems to be a bug.
You can try your technique if you want on the actual file :
https://www.lotuscars.de/Resolve/Magic%20Men%20Locked%20for%20Sascha%2030%20fps%20-%20R2cut.mov
The problem seems to be the DV encoding it self.
I converted the QTs to DPX in AE and now it works as expected.
The Tv station asked for ProRes anyway so I can circumvent the DV encoding at least.In a perfect world (Color,FCP,Fusion…) the app had a setting for adjusting the timeline to the first media dropped in.
The would eliminate a lot of confusion.
Also field processing as I understand would be done by internally deinterlacing, then do the scale and move on two half high images and re-interleave afterward. All done in the BG of course.
Thats the only way to preserve the field structure.A slice of color…
DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2×2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE -
Sascha, it seems to me you’re going about this a bit the wrong way. There’s no need for interlace in this case, and in fact any real time conversion will get it wrong.
What you should be doing is a reverse pulldown on the original material, to get a 23.976 fps progressive stream, and then playing back that stream at 25.00 fps, and separately pitching/stretching the sound to get it to match. That way, you’ll work with progressive frames throughout, and you’ll achieve the maximum possible quality. Just make sure you convert the sound with a high-quality tool. Protools can do this, but there are also several smaller/cheaper utilities that do it.
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Joakim Ziegler – Postproduction Supervisor -
Hey Joakim,
Thats the second thing I tried after asking them for over one year to do a proper recapture in 24p.
The problem is, due to the nature of editing, you slip the cadence of the pull up and its almost impossible to make a proper pull up without doing it manually for each shot.
also this will result in frame loss here and there where two cadences happen within on edit.
The Teranex does an amazing job, we tried it and it looks even better than the NTSC source.My problem right now is that Resolve interprets the NTSC DV which is 480 instead of 486 when it actually only should process 655×480, stretch it virtually to 480 and on save recreate NTSC DV.
My crazy workaround :Convert the QTs in another app to DPX ( not AE , because it loses frames)
Re-conform a new project from the Resolve EDLs , based on the new DPX
Color trace (thanks, oh lord) the QT project we worked on last week.
Render from Resolve in 720x480p ProRes4444 ( which the Media Express does not like)
Converting them in AE to proper NTSC DV
Playout through the Decklink , into the Teranex, to a 50i Pal tape.
Have a beer, or three…A slice of color…
DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2×2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE -
Ah, yes, if the original is edited in interlace after adding the 3:2 pulldown, you’re in quite a bit more trouble. Of course, telling people they SHOULDN’T DO THAT over and over again doesn’t seem to have much effect, sadly.
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Joakim Ziegler – Postproduction Supervisor
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