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Fascinating article on FCP.co today…
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “If nothing else, I like to think of this forum as one long demonstration on the weaknesses of analogy in argument. It never disappoints in that respect.”
I like to think this forum often demonstrates that weak analogies and poorly chosen metaphors reveal lazy thinking; my latest attempt being a prime example. On the other hand metaphor and analogy are, in every culture I’m aware of, one of the primary tools of human communication, and while less accurate, in some ways, than mathematics and logic, are generally much more fun. When chosen wisely.
[Franz Bieberkopf] ” re: “structure” in NLEs … I wouldn’t want to throw out the baby with the soup. From what I have seen, all of them could use more development in terms of “grouping” clips in the timeline.”
As to story structure and NLEs – I’m not saying there isn’t room for improvement, I’m merely saying I don’t understand the need to develop software with that as the core interest. But then again, as my family reminds me on a near daily basis, I’m often wrong.
I think the saying goes “often wrong, but never in doubt.”
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] ” On the other hand metaphor and analogy are, in every culture I’m aware of, one of the primary tools of human communication, and while less accurate, in some ways, than mathematics and logic, are generally much more fun. When chosen wisely.”
Herb,
I guess I think of analogy as a rhetoric tool (for argument) and metaphor as a literary device (form).
In that framing, analogy is useful where the audience is unfamiliar with the terms or subject at hand, but will inevitably fail under any sort of scrutiny, and thus requires both a charitable reading and that it be abandoned at some point.
Metaphor, on the other hand, is fire.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “Metaphor, on the other hand, is fire.”
I was about to say “Metaphor is fire metaphorically speaking,” but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a metaphor in this phorum.
You used the word “analogy,” but the word more closely twinned with metaphor is “simile,” which is built around “like” and “as.” And indeed, most of those posts begin, “It’s like a car” or something similarly simile-esque.
But analogy is a good word too….
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[Tim Wilson] “But analogy is a good word too….”
And appropriate if given at least partly for the sake of a logical argument.
It’s like the tail wagging the dog.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Herb Sevush] “That’s not story structure, which is what the software that started this thread was concerned with”
“I don’t get the need for editing software that specializes in structure.”
Oh I thought you were referring to FCP X’s whole emphasis on using metadata as a way to organize and build a story line. Not the original post which is a feature that has not been put into X.
Well it seems you could live without either.
But getting back to your example: shot C1514R_213 already comes embedded with metadata from the Ki Pro. Other important notes are passed in with a notebook. No advantage to have these in the NLE? Which take the director liked (favorite the clip and now you can sort the clips without turning to the notebook). Or even just typing in C1514R_213 in the search field rather than scrolling through 213 shots? Or let me just sort all the director’s picks and then sort them by angle or subject?
Sounds like your show is a well oiled machine. But I think FCP X has done a good job or allowing you to collect and organize existing and new organizational metadata as needed.
Off Topic: I’ve been using a Ki Pro now for the last 5 years or so and its been a really useful device in production and post. The first time we shot all week using 3 Pana 170 P2 cams – 1 out the three cams we were using recorded in a frame rate and codec that FCP X could not read. I think it was set to 720 30P instead of 720 60P. In any case, I put the card back into the cam and recorded to the Ki Pro SDI out the cam. Worked perfectly though was no longer broken into clips. It also bypasses HDV compression giving new life to some of those cams. And a lot of the new Macs won’t recognize Canon firewire cams. But these cams have a form of component out. Ki Pro again. Rock solid and great customer support. The audio is good on the Ki Pros too though I wish there was better monitoring.
Thank’s so much, Herb, for your feedback. Appreciate it.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Craig Alan] “No advantage to have these in the NLE? Which take the director liked (favorite the clip and now you can sort the clips without turning to the notebook). Or even just typing in C1514R_213 in the search field rather than scrolling through 213 shots? Or let me just sort all the director’s picks and then sort them by angle or subject? “
I do see the advantages of keywording and if Adobe would add it to Ppro I’d find ways to use it. but I’m not willing to trade customizable screen layouts, much less organizational track layouts to get it. It’s all about priorities.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
Well now we are in the weeds here. I don’t post on the weekends, so if you don’t look back that’s quite all right, and so I won’t spend too much time in the case this is dead discussion.
The evidence in the xml document may or may not be a relational database. Nothing in the document requires a relational DB. I detailed a scenario where it could be a single table.
My last project xml-ing between DBs was in 2008, so I am definitely rusty. At Caesar’s Entertainment in Northern Nevada we exported slot data and jackpot wins while excluding customer data into a Scala script that integrated into a mograph celebration and audio celebration. We called it “popping the floor.” It was many relational databases synced into one video presentation. I did not write the XML document. I created the mograph and audio and I wrote the Scala script (which is VBS).
XML is brilliant at dup and reorganize. That’s what it does. Cherry pics data and reorganizes.
Dynamic Link is brilliant. I believe PP is the hub (according to stuff Kevin M has posted, mostly in passing, about using PP as a hub) because it is supposed to be the superstructure. The organizing application. And I’ve been using it like that since November 2013, and it’s simply brilliant. For example, I cut the rough in PP and then line up any mograph elements in the timeline by stacking them. When I import PP project into AE, they are all aligned perfectly and I precomp etc. and then back in PP import that comp and replace. This line of reasoning makes it appear to me as a single table.
(I’ll stop here in case it’s a dead thread.)
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