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Fascinating article on FCP.co today…
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[Craig Alan] “But they would still need someone who knows the NLE to do this ‘restructuring’, right?”
Why would an editor need that software to do the restructuring. It’s easy enough to move sections around with any existing NLE. For instance I had just had a producer ask me to move a “quick tip” segment, including graphic bumper, lower third, music sting and multiple audio and video edits, from the break between 2 recipe segments to a spot in the middle of the first recipe. Took me about thirty seconds to do it in Ppro, would be the same in any NLE I’ve worked with (Bill Davis might say that X could do it in :05). So why would I need specialized software to do that? I was just guessing that the software was created to let non-editors mess around with structure, or else who is the market for it?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Craig, I’m guessing your asking me this question. AS a suggestion, on this forum, especially with long threads, its advisable to refer to a name, or quote the original post so we know who you are referring to.
In any case if this is a response to my post then the answer is I create the templates as part of my job as post supervisor. “
Yeah Sorry bout that. Since mine was a reply to yours and I mentioned template…but the way its displayed it is not obvious.
Thanks so much for your response. I wish we’d talk more about workflow and the craft of editing. There seems to be this new mantra that the broadcast/major film editors are such a small niche and that their needs are so rarified that why would anyone pay attention. But I think their practices were developed from years of trial and error and input from highly skilled creative people. I worked in broadcast as a writer and did get called into the edit bays by a director or producer. The editors would create “auditions” that were suggested so fast that I learned nothing of how they did them but did process some of the workflow.
Getting back to the discussion – this is what I remember. That someone, in this case you, would create the template. So pretty much after the test shows and the pilot, the pattern would be in place. This also mirrored the script writing in which you needed to write x number of pages with specific breaks for commercials. They called it an act structure but it was not for creative purpose.
Anyway, you’re finding that compound clips in FCP X can provide everything that is needed in terms of this template that you hand off to your team of editors? Is your production team all in with FCP X? Or are you saying, “every NLE can create these and in FCP X its done with compounds? What more would you need?”
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Herb Sevush] “Why would an editor need that software to do the restructuring. It’s easy enough to move sections around with any existing NLE.”
Herb what you said was:
This software seemed to be designed for non-editors to be able to restructure a show – a way for the producers to avoid dealing with editors once the scenes were cut.
They wouldn’t need any given NLE. Hell they edited movies before there were computers. But unless the templates were applied from a list, you would need someone to create them and then someone to use them.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Craig Alan] “you’re finding that compound clips in FCP X can provide everything that is needed in terms of this template that you hand off to your team of editors? Is your production team all in with FCP X? Or are you saying, “every NLE can create these and in FCP X its done with compounds?”
The latter. I don’t use FCPX, I’m aware of it’s features and would think that compound clips for each segment, joined together on a master timeline, would make restructuring super easy. I am saying that any NLE I’ve worked with can handle this sort of workflow. I don’t get the need for editing software that specializes in structure. It would be like designing spoons that specialize in soup – you can eat soup with any spoon, and if you can’t then your not using a spoon.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “I don’t get the need for editing software that specializes in structure.”
Assuming Apple has any intention of using what’s in this patent… I’m more inclined to see it as utilizing something like iMovie’s Trailer Templates… though not as “locked down”. Say all your shows acts lived in template objects which could be edited individually at the same time, but also all be shared/contained in a “Master” timeline which could be assembled/fine tuned etc. And. Like iMovie templates, could be converted to movies (a regular timeline) if needed. Like compound clips with more features. Who knows. More likely it’s just another patent that nothing will come of. 😉
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Herb Sevush] “It would be like designing spoons that specialize in soup – you can eat soup with any spoon, and if you can’t then your not using a spoon.”
Maybe the joke went over my head but there are soup spoons (which have a different size and shape than teaspoons). There are also dessert spoons, egg spoons, iced tea spoons, grapefruit spoons, tablespoons, etc.,.
Generally speaking any of the major NLE’s can be used to edit, but each one is different enough that it may be better, or worse, at specific workflows. To some people those differences make a difference and to other people they do not.
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[Andrew Kimery] “Maybe the joke went over my head”
Or maybe it was a badly thought out metaphor. I go with the latter.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “The latter. I don’t use FCPX, I’m aware of it’s features and would think that compound clips for each segment, joined together on a master timeline, would make restructuring super easy. I am saying that any NLE I’ve worked with can handle this sort of workflow. I don’t get the need for editing software that specializes in structure”
Ahhh. Got it. This is of interest to me.
So you feel that the glut of media that is taking place now, even compared to just a few years ago, can already be well managed/organized by any of the NLEs?
Isn’t the first thing you do after production wraps or even before, is go through your clips (you meaning you and all the editors and assistants that work with you) and sort them out and label them in some form or other. You don’t see any steps forward in how FCP manages this process? You do not find it helpful, as one of a ton of features like this, that now you can tag clips in the finder and its imported as a keyword collection?
I would say FCP X specializes in metadata and organization rather than structure. Or is that what you mean by structure? I think its structure is still in early stages of development.
One feature I used in FCP legacy, for example, that really needs to be there is to make custom layouts of the program that you can easily toggle between. Color correction – keyboard shortcut: scopes open, my viewer a certain size, the inspector open and on the visual tab, the browser and library windows closed, the audio meters closed, the effects browser open. Now I have to open and close all this stuff and resize it and its tedious.
To me that’s kinda of a structural thing. Ergonomics.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Herb Sevush] “… maybe it was a badly thought out metaphor.”
Herb,
If nothing else, I like to think of this forum as one long demonstration on the weaknesses of analogy in argument. It never disappoints in that respect.
And, also, re: “structure” in NLEs … I wouldn’t want to throw out the baby with the soup. From what I have seen, all of them could use more development in terms of “grouping” clips in the timeline.
Franz.
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[Craig Alan] “Isn’t the first thing you do after production wraps or even before, is go through your clips (you meaning you and all the editors and assistants that work with you) and sort them out and label them in some form or other”
The show I work on records to AJA Ki-Pros and all the clips are meaningfully labeled as we shoot. AJA makes special control software that enables us to do that. While I realize that X has great tools for post logging, I don’t really need them.
[Craig Alan] ” You do not find it helpful, as one of a ton of features like this, that now you can tag clips in the finder and its imported as a keyword collection? “
A typical clip would come to me named C1514R_213, which tells me this clip is from the C camera (we use 5 cameras) season 15 episode 14 (we’ve been doing this a long time), the type of segment is a Recipe and its the 213th clip we’ve shot during production. The continuity department has sent me a notebook and using that clip number I know exactly what part of which recipe (most episodes have 2 recipes) it belongs to, what day it was shot on, what other shows were shot that day, and what the directors and producers comments were about that take. What exactly would I need keywords collections for?
[Craig Alan] “One feature I used in FCP legacy, for example, that really needs to be there is to make custom layouts of the program that you can easily toggle between. Color correction – keyboard shortcut: scopes open, my viewer a certain size, the inspector open and on the visual tab, the browser and library windows closed, the audio meters closed, the effects browser open. Now I have to open and close all this stuff and resize it and its tedious.To me that’s kinda of a structural thing. Ergonomics.”
That’s not story structure, which is what the software that started this thread was concerned with. On the other hand I agree that custom screen layouts tied to shortcut keys are an excellent feature for an NLE to have.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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