Does the XL-H1 Still hold up?

[Declan Smith]

That’s odd indeed.

I know this is obvious, but have you tried putting the RCA output into another monitoring device, such as a recorder or amplifier, to make sure you are getting audio out of the RCA sockets, and that the cables you are trying are working end to end ?

I have attached two photos showing the RCA sockets to use, and check on the Samurai, Also, in order to register audio on the Samurai you will need to connect up the HD-SDI so the Samurai knows it can record something.

1. RCA Sockets – Check you are using the ones shown

2. Select Audio channel to record from on the samurai

It wouldn’t hurt to record to tape as a backup, just in case, and you could sync the audio later, and perhaps use the headphone out into the Samurai. I’m surprised you’re not getting anything from the RCA outs when set to LINE OUT unless there is problem with the audio section. I don’t know what else to suggest, I’ve even tried switching the video out / composite switch in case that had any influence but it doesn’t.

Declan Smith
https://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

“it’s either binary or it’s not”

[Rob Gutermuth]

well, I tested the camera itself, and just recorded onto tape a 30 sec clip of me talking, and then I tried playing that back from the camera, in VTR mode off tape – I saw the meters moving, so I know audio was there on the tape, but no output from the RCA jacks….

I don’t think I ever used them before, since I usually have used FW for capture for video and audio, either off tape, or from my firestore – guess I need to send the camera into canon for repair… hopefully, it’s just a loose connection inside… maybe the last guy that replaced the tape transport and fw port, forgot to re-connect that board?

I used it yesterday – and ended up running the Headphone jack into the audio in of the Samurai, and just as you showed. gonna transfer the footage later… but I did monitor the audio with my headphones to the unit, and it sounded “ok” no distortion, etc… the levels, even maxed, were only about 3/4 of the way up on the meters, but I backed the output off just a hair to be sure it would record clean…

I do have a tape backup and also the firestore too… I like being able to record to all 3 things at one time… a back up for my back up 🙂

when you record from the XL-H1 to the samurai, do you use Prores or Prores LT? – I heard that LT is all you need from the XL-H1… I know that HQ is overkill… correct?

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Declan Smith]

Presumably you tried setting the RCA to LINE OUT in the menu system so it does sound like a hardware issue, Good to hear that the headphone socket worked out ok. Did you plug your headphones into the out socket of the Samurai ? (I don’t think I’ve ever tried that socket on mine!).

As far as which ProRes version to use, I don’t’ tend to use anything less than ProRes 422. The LT version will create files ~35% smaller but as there is a tradeoff between quality v file size I tend to use ProRes 422. For pulling green screens it has served well, as has colour correction, I have not seen any notable difference using ProRes HQ, although I haven’t carried out any scientific tests, so all subjective. However, on the lower codecs (Prores 422 proxy & LT) I have noticed a difference with fast moving subjects or lots of movement in terms of more artefacts. So it depends on what you are shooting.

A good guide on the subject can be found here https://larryjordan.com/articles/picking-the-right-version-of-prores/

Apples own guide on it: https://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkflows/index.html#chapter=10%26section=2%26tasks=true

Declan Smith
https://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

“it’s either binary or it’s not”

[Rob Gutermuth]

Yes, I had to use the headphone 3.5 mini jack on the xl-h1, and took it into the analog audio in – isn’t there just the one on the samurai? mine has SDI in and out, Control L in and out, and Headphone out, and auido input… those are the only jacks on the unit…

even cranked, it was only like at about -12db… I kept the gain at 0, since I was trying for clean as possible audio… Im sure the RCA’s would be MUCH better… will see if it’s worth repairing, or getting another body, or even a “s”, and then, the Audio and video are together in the file via SDI to start with.

Thanks for clearing that up… on Sunday, I shot with Prores (not LT) so, that is what I will stay with then, since I do shoot a TON of stuff where high motion is involved (sports, dancing, etc) I opted for 2 smaller SSD drives instead of one or 2 larger HDD drives, just because I like the piece of mind knowing that the drive will not have a problem… SSD drives are so cheap now, seems like the better way to go…. Glad to know I don’t have to go all the way to HQ though…

Looks like Im getting about 1gb per min… that’s 59.94 60i – and I have a 480 and a 320 gig SSD – so 800gbs – I’d never need 12 hours + before I could off load anything, so that should work out… sometimes I do need 5 or 6 though in a day… what do you like for SSD’s in higher capacity – I have a sandisk extreme ii – 6/gbs and 545/mps (guess thats read/write rates?)

Thanks for all your help on this, Declan – you da man!

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Andrew Johnson]

Hey guys, I have a question or 2 (I hope it is alright to post here, if not please forward me to another thread) but after reading this i am possibly changing my mind on what recorder i am about to purchase. I have just purchased my first cannon XH-A1S (finally getting into the HD world) and since i do not have firewire on my computer and would also like to have it in another form for quicker editing then DV tapes, I am looking at a DTE. I have 2 that i have been looking at, a Focus FS-H200 and a Focus FS-5 (both are firewire in and USB out). But after reading this thread, would I be better to pay just a little bit more and get the Atomos Samurai Blade?

I edit with the consumer version of Sony VEGAS and am using the camera for to display on a big screen while recording for some events, so I will have to have a video out to my mixer at the same time (that will bring up some questions after i get a reply). Thanks

[Rob Gutermuth]

I own a few of these in this same line, and while you CAN use the Blade with the XH Cameras, it’s a bit of doing, since the blade needs clean HDMI, and the XH cameras do not have this as an option.

I have several DTE’s as well… and with this camera (the xh-a1 and a1s) they work well – just be sure not to buy the ones that only record in 1080P or they won’t work in HD mode, since these cameras output 1080i

Here are the pros and cons to using either with these cameras:

DTE:

Pros:

Cost – slightly less money, depending
Direct Connection via Firewire for video and audio

Cons:

doesn’t bypass the 1440×1080 processing, nor the compression used for tape (same as recording to tape)
Files have to be transcoded in most cases (easy to do now a days, but adds a step)
most of these use spinning platters – if dropped, or bumped hard, your done!
Most of the FW drives aren’t supported any longer

—-

Atomos:

Pros:

True 1080 full frame – bypassing the FW/Tape processing
Files are ready to be edited/copied over to your computer for editing right away. Apple ProRes
Ninja has a nice LED display, which shows you a preview of the material
better made box – love the fit and finish of Atomos products.
lots of other pros here, but….

Cons:

Cost – more expensive than a DTE recorder, but worth it in the long run
Connection with the Canon XH-A1s… you need to use the special component connection, into a component to HDMI converter box, and then you can connect to the unit via HDMI
You will have to run Audio separate to the unit from the camera (RCA to 1/8 plug, stereo fixes that)
—–

I have used both over the last few years, and it’s hard to beat the Atomos units – they are really worth the money for what they do, and work 100% of the time correctly in my experience.

I have a XL-H1 and can actually record to my Atomos Sam, my DTE and TAPE all at the same time if I needed to for some reason (Tape is the back up of my back up!) – it’s nice if you have a client that wants the raw footage of what you shot, right after, but also you wanted the footage to edit too.

I think the Ninja is what you want to use… don’t get the first issue – be sure to buy the second one… then, when you upgrade to modern cameras that all have HDMI outs, you can use it with those too.

I do love the Samurai as well – the Locking BNC connectors are great, but you need SDI with that recorder (as found on the XL-h1)

Let us know what you end up doing…

Cheers!

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Andrew Johnson]

ok thanks for the reply, (please excuse my ignorance on the subject as again, this is my first step into HD and Pro style world from SD and small handhelds- while trying to stick to a budget) . Since i am looking at doing a lot free hand and mobile shooting, i am a little concerned about the bulk of converters (or maybe i need to just start using a pod…. Would that extra equipment be a con for the Atmos (blade or ninja)? Or are they pretty compact enough to attach to the atmos and ultimately the mount on the handle of the cam Ect…

Also one of the DTEs i am looking at uses CF cards and one is a Hard drive base.

What converter are you using with both your ninja 2 and your samurai? And what about Power to the converter? Thanks

[Andrew Johnson]

ok thanks for the reply, (please excuse my ignorance on the subject as again, this is my first step into HD and Pro style world from SD and small handhelds- while trying to stick to a budget) . Since i am looking at doing a lot free hand and mobile shooting, i am a little concerned about the bulk of converters (or maybe i need to just start using a pod…. Would that extra equipment be a con for the Atmos (blade or ninja)? Or are they pretty compact enough to attach to the atmos and ultimately mount it on the handle Ect…

One of the DTEs i am looking at uses CF cards and one is a Hard drive base.

What converter are you using with both your ninja 2 and your samurai? ANd do you use a power pack to be able to go mobile?

I have also noticed that the Atomos units record in apple Prores, I have read where that has given guys using Sony Movie Studio Plat. 13 on PC fits ( i know that mine is not a fan of the Apple stuff). Have you all see any probs with it?

[Rob Gutermuth]

First, I can’t speak on compat of ProRes to anything PC related, except I know that PP will open them on a PC for sure, which is what most people use on the PC – not sure about sony – you can of course, always transcode, but that sort of kills the whole workflow.

I think in your case, I’d opt for the FS-5 which is the unit I think you are talking about that takes CF cards – those work good, and you can just direct connect them to your FW port on the camera with no other adapter, etc…

I don’t recall the name of the adapter I used – but it needed AC so, was mostly a studio/tripod use sort of application – for mobile, I would then need a battery pack, and then it’s getting to much like a band aid looking set up where you have a cable into a box, and then another cable into the ninja.

The samurai doesn’t need anything additional with a SDI direct connection… and it can all be portable, but you don’t own an XL-h1 so, kind of a moot point…

I may be in the minority, but I do still use tape as a reliable back up of what Im shooting – I shot 50 jobs last year, and didn’t need to use any, but it was nice to have it there, in case the samauri had an issue, etc

So, as I said, in your case, for what you want to do, the FS-5 seems like your best option – the good and big CF cards are not that cheap though… that would be the only draw back, but besides that… no problem I can think of

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Andrew Johnson]

Great thanks, I really like the prospect of the Atomos for in the future. But, since i will be out in the field and need to be mobile, i am afraid the electricity factor could be a problem… May have to get me a one for doing green screen and shots in studio though… but that will be for another day.

I have been reading up on the Focus FS-5 and the FS-H200 since both have USB out, .

I really want to thank you for replying back, I am sure i will have more questions come up..

Thanks Andrew