Does the XL-H1 Still hold up?

[Rob Gutermuth]

Thanks -all good info – let me ask you this – so, it captures to Prores… is that Prores 422 HQ? Just wanted to know the specific codec for sure…

how much time can you record with, say, a pair of 1tbHDD’s? or better than that, how much storage will I need per min? – is there a limit as to the size of the drives? Say, doing it like you do, with analog audio input being recorded as PCM audio with the SDI datastream?

THanks

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Declan Smith]

On the Samurai model I have (the original), you have the choice of ProRes 422 LT, ProRes 422, and ProRes 422 HQ.

In terms of space requirements, it depends on your frame rate and which codec. Below are some examples per minute for full frame.


Frame Rate Codec Space/Minute
25 fps ProRes 422 LT 0.64Gb
25 fps ProRes 422 0.91Gb
25 fps ProRes 422 HQ 1.34Gb
30 fps ProRes 422 LT 0.76Gb
30 fps ProRes 422 1.08Gb
30 fps ProRes 422 HQ 1.61Gb


With a 1Tb drive using the worst case scenario (30fps ProRes 422 HQ) you’re looking at approx. 10 hours

Declan Smith
https://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

“it’s either binary or it’s not”

[Rob Gutermuth]

So, it seems like capturing uncompressed is the way to go, but now Im a bit concerned with the added noise introduced, esp if Im in low light, and need to go to something like +6 or +12

I rarely need to go to +12, but I have read now that noise is noticeable at +3 even… and I guess the HDV codec masks this, as part of the compression.

So, my new question is… how best to fix this in post? – so I have my Prores 422 files, and I’m assuming I can just open them in FCP 7, etc – and now what? is there a good filter choice to bring down the noise? or am I worrying about nothing here?

One thing that I think will be of benefit, is it would seem that I would loose many of the motion artifacts? – Sometimes when I shoot something like a sports game, if I follow the ball when panning, things are not quite as crisp as when I stop panning… zooming not so much, but it would be nice to have a clearer image with motion (either me doing it, or them doing it :-)) – Is that a true statement?

Can I assume that going uncompressed with allow me to go head to head with something like a XF300 that is natively 4:2:2 but uses the new MXF codec, and CF cards…

I just don’t want to waste time or money – I guess that’s what these forums are for!

thanks all!

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Rob Gutermuth]

Well, I bit the bullet and found a used Samurai -came with everything plus an SSD drive for $500 – I did find a sandisk extreme II SSD as well, so Im thinking I will use that one to start with, and see how I like it…

I know I will need an RCA to 3.5 mini jack for the audio (any thoughts there?) – but now I can record to tape, Firestore and Samurai all at the same time if I wanted to 🙂

My biggest fear is dropping frames with this thing… prores right away will be great to have, esp since I shoot a lot of long events, and have 1-2 hour files… but if there are any dropped frames, it will be worthless to me… (well, ok that’s an extreme, but I just want it to work!)

That being said, do you find using prores is “safer” than Prores HQ? or maybe a better question is, will I even see a difference between prores and prores HQ? Im shooting 1080i 59.97…

I hope this is the sort of thing, where I say “man, how did I live without it for so long!” – 4:2:2 and Prores right off the drive is very appealing to me, and would give me a couple more years out of this camera for sure, until clients “demand” 4K+ by then, 10K Panels will be $1500 at bestbuy lol

Thanks

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Todd Terry]

[Rob Gutermuth] ” Im shooting 1080i 59.97″

That’s good, because… (and I MAY be speaking out of turn here)… I think the H1 will only output 60i via the HD-SDI spigot. I seem to recall that even if you shoot 24p as I usually do (or as that camera calls it, “24f”) it still comes out of the HD-SDI port as 59.97 video (although it looks like 24p, as it has a 2:3 pulldown in a 60i wrapper).

I’m not 100% certain of that, but I think that’s the case. It’s a moot point for you since you want 60i video, but if you ever want 24p video it might not be recorded as “true” 24p video. Not that there aren’t ways around that.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Rob Gutermuth]

well, I can let you know – when I ever have time to play 🙂 – I do know that in some cases, you have to “force” the sammys to lock to the frame rate, pulldown, etc…

I remember years ago, when panny came out with the first “affordable” true 24P camera, and I think Canon then rushed it, since I always heard that 24F and 30F were “not quite” true blue 24 and 30P – so this would not surprise me…

but, I’d love to prove us both wrong, and see what 24F footage would look like from the sammy via SDI out… I bet the XF305 with SDI out does it well… but for $5K it should… 🙂

Cheers

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Todd Terry]

24f actually is 24p, when you shoot in HDV mode (it’s not when you shoot in standard-def mode, in SD it’s 23.976 progressive frames in a 60i wrapper).

“24f” is just not called “24p” because that was actually a trademark owned by Robert Faber the inventor of “FilmLook” (remember that company in the 90s?), and Canon wouldn’t pay the licensing to officially call it “24p.”

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Rob Gutermuth]

Hi All,

ok, got my XL-H1 connected to the samurai – but Im not getting any output out of the RCA jacks from the camera – Im just using the front stereo mic…

the unit gets audio, as when I output the headphone output to the input, I can see it there, (as A or analog input) – but no dice when trying to use the RCA’s….

stupid question, but is there a switch or setting somewhere that Im missing to make the RCA’s OUTPUT and not INPUT or something else Im missing here? I tried both sets, and none work…

I’d rather not use the headphone output of the camera……

Thanks to all…

Cheers,

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations

[Declan Smith]

There is a setting you need to change (or check).

1. In the XLH1-Menu, select audio setup

2. In the audio setup menu, select “AUD.M.SET”, at present, it’s probably set to “NORMAL”

3. Now change this setting from “NORMAL” to “LINE OUT”.

Hopefully that should be all that is necessary. You should then connect your Samurai via the AUDIO 1 Ch1/3 & Ch2/4 outputs (the lower two RCA sockets).

Declan Smith
https://www.madpanic.tv
After Effects CS6/ FCS3 / Canon XLH1 / Canon 7D / Reason / Cubase

“it’s either binary or it’s not”

[Rob Gutermuth]

Wish that worked, but still no audio…

I know its not the cable, cuz I tried 2 others…

I know it’s not the samurai, cuz I used the headphone 3.5inch jack to connect and I see the audio fine that way…

I guess aud M set means AUDIO MONITOR SET? – I have the switch for ch 1/2 set for front mic – and can see and hear the audio from that mic….

is it possible that the camera doesn’t send this signal for some reason to the RCA outs… I guess I can try plugging in an XLR mic just to see that?

Any other ideas? – I really wanted to use the samurai for Sunday’s shoot… I guess I could use the audio off of the headphone outs if I really had to, but I really wante this to work out with the RCAs….

Glad Im checking this all now 🙂 I wonder if using the headphone out to the Sammy input is a better idea than capturing the audio from Tape in post (yes, I know it would be compressed vs PCM, correct?)

ummm so many questions, but thanks! – I hope there is something else that Im missing here, and my line out is not hosed.

Thanks

Rob Gutermuth
Media Creations