de interlace filter sucks !!!

[Zach Rutledge]

We shot footage on the same camera, the SDX900, using the 60i mode having the same effect as the 24p footage when deinterlaced. Even if what you are saying is correct with both 24p and 24pa modes having a pulldown, this should not apply to the 60i footage. So the problem does not appear to be a pulldown issue.

Also, Tom mentioned that the images I posted were not 100%. As stated earlier they are a full 720×486 image. One deinterlaced with the FCP filter, the other without. And as you can see, around heads and shoulders you see some kind of jagged edges that are formed.

I was really thinking it was a set up problem either in the camera, deck, capture card, or Final Cut.

I have tried using Compressor with no luck.

So if shooting on a SDX900 in the 24p mode, can anyone help me with the proper settings in the camera, Final Cut, Kona LHe card and deck to hopefully prevent this from happening?

[Zach Rutledge]

Tom, not sure what you mean about “Could you explain why the material was shot at 24p with pulldown added? What was the point of that? ” since we are shooting in 24p but not adding a pulldown back in? Sorry, just got lost on that question so if you could explain further please what you mean. Thanks.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Zach Rutledge] “We shot footage on the same camera, the SDX900, using the 60i mode having the same effect as the 24p footage when deinterlaced. “

Zach, I don’t know why you don’t believe what I am telling you. Did you shoot 60i or 24p? Did you read that link I sent? Did you read it carefully? I am now confused if you have shot 60i or 24p (which is still recorded in a 60i stream) because you have now said both.

You have a Kona card.

Please, step through your footage frame by frame. If you truly shot 24p, you will see 3 whole frames (or progressive), then 2 segmented (or interlaced) frames. If you can, please post 1 second of the video so I can see it.

[Zach Rutledge] “And as you can see, around heads and shoulders you see some kind of jagged edges that are formed. “

If you shot 24p, then you have progressive frames AND interlaced frames (please read that article I sent). When you try and deinterlace a progressive frame, those jagged lines are you effectively throwing your resolution in half as you are taking a progressive frame and knocking it down to one field.

Also, if you are trying to deinterlace 60i material to make it look like 24p, there are better ways to do it. When you deinterlace 60i material, you are essentially turning it into 30p which does not look like 24p.

[Zach Rutledge] “I was really thinking it was a set up problem either in the camera, deck, capture card, or Final Cut. “

Well, if you shot 60i and meant to shoot 24p, that’s the camera. It won’t be the deck/capture card, and it could be FCP but I am now confused as to what you are trying to do.

[Zach Rutledge] “I have tried using Compressor with no luck. “

What did you try?

[Zach Rutledge] “So if shooting on a SDX900 in the 24p mode, can anyone help me with the proper settings in the camera, Final Cut, Kona LHe card and deck to hopefully prevent this from happening?”

We used to shoot 24p with the SDX all the time. If you want a truly progressive workflow for the web, you have to remove the pulldown. Please read the article since my advice seems to be filled with incredibility.

Jeremy

[Tom Wolsky]

24p recorded in at 29.97 timebase has pulldown added to it, either in 2:3:2:3 or 2:3:3:2. I’m not sure what this is doing for you if you’re going back to Beta. You can remove the pulldown and convert to 23.976 for the web as Dave said, but I don’t see the point if you’re going to Beta. Deinterlacing it is not really a good plan.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP6,” “Basic Training for FCS2” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop”

[Zach Rutledge]

I will post some footage in a minute. What I was stating was I just happened to have shot both formats and in my testing to see what is wrong used both types of footage with the same result. I am not trying to confuse anyone but I was trying to state that I had shot in 60i and had the SAME result as in 24p. I was under the impression, since it was stated in the SDX900 manual, that the 24p mode was just a “look” not actually 24fps, is this not the case?

Still back to square one, if both 24p setting and 60i setting come out looking like the same after I deinterlace the footage, wouldn’t one assume that the pulldown has no effect on my issue?

[Zach Rutledge]

what is the best way to post some footage for you to look at?

[Jeremy Garchow]

Where did you post the pictures?

And please read this. It’s quick:

https://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Zach Rutledge] “Still back to square one, if both 24p setting and 60i setting come out looking like the same after I deinterlace the footage, wouldn’t one assume that the pulldown has no effect on my issue?”

No. I still don’t understand if you have 60i or 24p material and how much of each you have. If you can, please post what you think is 24p and what you think is 60i.

http://www.yousendit.com

Jeremy

[Zach Rutledge]

I have been working with the SDX900 for a couple of years now, so I know how to set the camera to record in 60i and 24p when I want to.

Let me break this down as simply as possible.

I have two separate tapes from two separate shoots.

One shoot was recorded using 24p.

One shoot was recorded using 60i.

Both pieces of footage, when laid in the same timeline set-up, show the same artifacting issues when deinterlaced.

Considering there is no pull down with the 60i footage and a 2:3 pulldown with the 24p footage, I would not think the pulldown is the issue.

BTW:

I read over the the link you had posted several times now and had seen that information before.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Zach Rutledge] “I have two separate tapes from two separate shoots.

One shoot was recorded using 24p.

One shoot was recorded using 60i. “

You should have stated this in your very first post. You have posted here 13 times before giving this out. I now have more questions. Are you trying to get the 24p to look like 60i or the 60i to look like 24p? Why do you need to deinterlace? What is your ultimate goal?

Strictly deinterlacing the 24p material will look like crap for reasons that I have already stated more than twice. If you have read that article and understood how 24p gets recorded to ntsc tape, you might know why it would like crap. Why deinterlace progressive footage?

The 60i material will look much better deinterlaced if you get a plugin.

You can also consider making the 60i material look like 24p with Nattress film effects.

Your sequence needs to be set to a field dominance of none for deinterlacing to work.

This is not magic, this is a lot of work and you need to treat the different kinds of footage in different ways if you are attempting to match the footage. They will never be identical, but you can get close.

If you post a second or two of each kind of footage, I will gladly show you a deinterlace of 60i footage in a couple of different ways and a rev telecine (pulldown removal) of 24p footage.

Jeremy