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Corporate Hubris
I’m outputting to tape now, (I guess that means I haven’t switched to X yet) so I guess I’ve got too much free time on my hands and I was reading some of the press releases about Canon’s new camera offerings and I figured I just had to let this one out.
What the F where they thinking?
The recent announcements by Canon have once again left me shaking my head as yet another company appears to be stone deaf when it comes to profiting from their customer’s wants.
Everyone knows what the DSLR shooters were looking for: HD SDI monitoring & output while shooting, and better audio, all this while keeping the same low cost and large sensor size as the 5D and 7D.
And what has Canon come up with – a camera that’s 8 X the cost of a 5D with a sensor the size of a 7D (to which it costs more than 12 x as much.)
Who do they think is gonna put down 20K for a Canon video camera? At that price you’re in Sony, Panasonic and even Red territory and much of the reason anyone cared about the 5D was comparative cost. And at that cost they reduce the sensor size, which is the only advantage they have over cameras like the AF100.
Again, what were they thinking?
Were they thinking the same thing that Apple thought when they came up with FCPX when any half literate noob could come up with the spec sheet that would have made for a great 64bit FCP8?
Were they thinking their customers were A**holes who could not only be led to water but who would lap it up gratefully singing hosannas along the way? I don’t get it.
Every time I hear someone talk about the inefficiencies of government and the virtues of getting a business approach in the White House I think – “please no, anything but that.”
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
49 Replies
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I hear you Herb, Canon might be kicking themselves for that move down the line.
The only thing I would add is the difference between Apple with X is they are going to make money off that thing. They are going to sell the hell out of X, where Cannon might not do as well for the points you mentioned.
Like X or not, I don’t think there is any question they are going to make money off it.
The more stuff they add to it (X) the more likely we are to cash in also.
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[tony west] “Like X or not, I don’t think there is any question they are going to make money off it.”
But will they make more money off it then they would have made with the FCP8 of my dreams? I’m not sure about that.
They’ve discarded a high paying, hardware intensive market that already exists for an imagined mass market of smaller margins and fewer hardware requirements. Time alone will tell if it was the right move from a financial standpoint. I’m not yet convinced that such a mass market exists in the window between Imovie and Avid/PPro.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
I disagree about this camera. There are a lot of upper-end videographers who have been shooting 5D and 7D because of the look and flexibility. They have also been quite dissatisfied with the level of control and amount of rigging they have to do to get a viable “production” camera. These folks have spent thousands on Zacuto and RedRock accessories and Zeiss or Canon glass.
This is the market Canon is trying to address. It’s the same market Sony is trying to address with the F3. In fact, you now have 3 similar cameras in that field: C300, F3 and Scarlet-X. Essentially the “mini-Alexa”, “mini-F65” or “mini-Epic” market. That’s a completely different field than the aspiring HDSLR shooter hoping for his first film. In the end, the street price will come down and then we’ll see where it goes. If you are shooting with HDSLRs for more standard things, like corporate videos, webisodes, local spots, etc., then you are better served by the Panasonic AF100 or the Sony FS100.
As far as FCP X and price… I think you have to leave that factor out. Apple has the luxury of applying any price they want to the product without it being an accurate reflection of its place in the market or the R&D put into it to get there.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “They have also been quite dissatisfied with the level of control and amount of rigging they have to do to get a viable “production” camera. These folks have spent thousands on Zacuto and RedRock accessories and Zeiss or Canon glass.
This is the market Canon is trying to address. It’s the same market Sony is trying to address with the F3. In fact, you now have 3 similar cameras in that field: C300, F3 and Scarlet-X. Essentially the “mini-Alexa”, “mini-F65” or “mini-Epic” market.”
My point is if your going to drop 20K on a comparatively featured video camera, are you going to give it to Canon or Sony. Canon or Panasonic. Canon or Red.
Canon already tried to be a player in the video market and failed years ago. Now, despite themselves, they are the market leader in the DSLR market. Instead of either
A) Improving the performance of the 5D, or
B) bring their low costs and larger sensor size to the pro video market they decide to
C) go head to head with Sony and Panasonic on their Pro turf, with a camera that directly competes with both the AF100 and the F3, and that doesn’t take advantage of the uniquely large sensor size of the 5D.
Years ago I was shopping HD camera’s at NAB with a DP and I saw a JVC camera that I thought was the most bang for the buck. The DP flat out refused to consider it saying in his market he couldn’t show up with a camera that had JVC on it and expect to make his rate. At least the JVC was cheap. What’s so special about the C300 that will allow Canon to break into that circle?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
Herb,
it’s a good point that all of this started with the 5D MK11 and yet here we are with C300 looking at a camera at ten times the price, and that’s without all the outboard kit that will be needed to make the camera functional out on location or in the studio.
I won’t be buying.
I sat on the edge of the DSLR pool for about a year looking at the Heath Robinson contraptions that came onto the market to make these cameras usable. To my eyes it seemed incredible that people were actually strapping these pieces of hi tech meccano around the DSLRs.
Then I bought a Canon 7D and it all made sense, kind of, fabulous rich colour and shallow depth of field. But suddenly my visa card got really hot with all the bits I had to buy to feed the new beast.
And the sound recording was the biggest pain. Sure everything is possible but firing up 2 machines to record an interview out on a busy location and monitor both machines takes a lot of concentration. And the camera needs to have a break every 10 minutes to catch its breath. And then there’s all the AA batteries I started buying in large multipacks.
On the up side it totally rejuvenated my interest in the filming business and I can honestly say that I’ve learnt more about aperture, depth of field, shutter rate, ND Filters and lenses than I had ever done through using camcorders.
And the shots looked great.
However the stress of external audio recording resulted in me buying the Canon XF305 camera, a small sensor very high definition 1080p camcorder with a really solid codec to record onto the SD cards.
So I’ve been really excited with the new developments from Canon. I can’t afford the C300 but there is a Full Frame new Canon video DSLR (4K) in development which will draw on the same technology. It will be with us within the next year and I’m sure that that’s when most people will upgrade from their 5Ds.
I imagine it will cost around the same as the AG AF100 and Sony Brick ( NEX FS100) and that all the lenses and toys I’ve bought over the last 2 years will find a new host.
The Canon XF Mpeg2 4:2:2 50Mbs codec will become as ubiquitous as Pro-Res is now.
And companies like Zacuto will continue to prosper well into the future.
And in a years time FCPX will probably be in its 4th version with every single problem resolved ( sure? ) and ready to roll onto the next crest of the HD wave.
So I’m feeling quite positive about this development.
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[Mark Dobson] “but there is a Full Frame new Canon video DSLR (4K) in development which will draw on the same technology. It will be with us within the next year and I’m sure that that’s when most people will upgrade from their 5Ds.”
Full frame 35 which is about a quarter the size of a 5D. I don’t use them very often but I know the difference – to me the 5D was worth the hassle, the 7D was not. There is no reason to pick a 7D over a Panasonic GH2, which is much better equipped for shooting video, but the same cannot be said for the 5D. The large sensor makes a difference, and designing their new cameras with just full frame sensors is idiotic.
[Mark Dobson] “The Canon XF Mpeg2 4:2:2 50Mbs codec will become as ubiquitous as Pro-Res is now.”
I assume your joking here.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Mark Dobson]
I won’t be buying. “This seems like the common thread in everything I’ve read about this camera. Lots of view points, from one end of the spectrum to the other, but I have yet to hear anyone say they’re planing on actually buying it.
Usually they say they’re going to buy the Scarlet.
Canon could have knocked one out of the park and absolutely owned their own little niche of the market that they created.
Instead, they decided to go after an already existing market where they have no name and didn’t do anything to shake it up. We have a camera which takes on the F3 and wins on some points and loses others. If they’ed offered 4:4:4 SDI right out of the box and a MSRP the same as the F3, it would have been a different story.
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Herb,
Not quite joking but slightly tongue in cheek.
The 35mm sensor would be a considerable jump up for me from the APS-C sensor thats in the 7D – almost twice as big.
However its not just the size that counts! The XF305 with its 3 1/3rd” sensors has been accepted for broadcast use by the BBC.
Maybe everyone will go for the EOS-1D X – or maybe there will be a 5DMk111 either way your quite right in that Canon seem to have jumped into the wrong market, possibly for the wrong reasons rather than simply providing a very active and responsive customer base with what they actually want.
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I think it’s too early to tell if Canon made a bad move or not.
Herb, you seem to think nobody will prefer Canon to any other established player at the same $20K price point (more likely to be $16K), but I’m not sure why not. It’s not like Canon is a fly-by-night company. It’s not as if they don’t already have some positive mojo with a ton of shooters via the success of the 5D and 7D for shooting video.
If the new 300 camera delivers a beautiful, cinematic image, with good support for audio, HD-SDI outputs, and great ergonomics, I’m not sure why people wouldn’t favor it over a much bigger Sony F3, or a Red Scarlet that has a much more complicated and cumbersome workflow.
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Documentary Camera in Los Angeles
http://www.lacameraman.com -
[Helmut Kobler] “you seem to think nobody will prefer Canon to any other established player at the same $20K price point (more likely to be $16K), but I’m not sure why not.”
FWIW – I’ve already had one “A-level” commercial Dir/DP express interest to me in considering this camera. He owns a 5D and lenses, plus 35mm film camera and gear. His high-end video shoots have been with Alexa. For him the proof will be in the image and ease of use in actual production.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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