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Corporate Hubris
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[Herb Sevush] “Since Showscan was primarily a theatrical concept I don’t see why this would be germane, but i don’t have a better reason.”
So the ShowScan programs could have a life after the theatre (on TV).
Jeremy
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I read a technical article about Showscan many years ago when I worked as a sound recordist on an Australian Showscan film. Apart from the fact the camera sounded like a cross between a jackhammer and the biggest dentist drill with the camera op wearing industrial earmuffs, the decision for 60 fps came from tests with human persistence of vision. Trumbull found from 50 frames per second upwards, most people would register two frames per eye refresh, making grain effectively blend an disappear.
The human eye doesn’t have a frame rate but a perception and persistence rate around 25-30 refreshes per second. 60 frames was enough for almost everyone but also a neat match to 60 hz. Traditionally the film industry has used mains frequency to sync lock mag dubbers, projectors and optical sound cameras so it made sense to stop at 60. Higher frame rates catch a tiny percentage of viewers who need a rate above 50, but there is no sense going higher and higher as it is diminished returns.
There has always been arguments for and against temporal versus spatial resolution. I read somewhere that Avatar was shot at 1920 x 1080 120 frames (with alternate frames for each stream so effectively 60p). Peter Jackson is shooting The Hobbit @ 48p per 3D stream 5K with Epics. So he is going for both spatial and temporal improvement. Still an issue with conversion to PAL 25 as there is still a 4% speed change.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “This is an awesome article about resolution, from way back in aught nine:
https://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of...”
Jeremy, thanks for bringing buck that incredible article.[Herb Sevush] “Why do you say that? “
Herb,
Beside some of the article considerations, you know that downscaling in software without a good plugin can highly degrade the picture (FC). Things gets more complicated when you have to do it in hardware, in RT.
You need a processor designed for that task and this is the problems of the D5 which processor was never intended to downscale in RT 30 stills per second (the Lumix processor was, and this why shines on video).
Video cameras with full raster 3 CMOS/CCDs skips all that hassle.
rafael[Jeremy Garchow] “[Herb Sevush] “At the presentation, which took place at the Ziegfeld Theater in NY, he had a reason for 60 but I don’t remember what it is now.”
Probably because tv runs @ 60Hz in the US.”
Right.
The only stable (?) reference a TV set could have in a house was the AC (60Hz in the USA, 50Hz in Europe/Aus).
Anyway, think that in modern TVs/computers (100Hz screens) display 100 images per second, although you can see that because is the same image repeated.
[Herb Sevush] “It is true that being a slave to backward compatibility is often a nuisance “
Is not backward compatibility.
You are watching 60 PICTURES per second your whole life; before they where Interlaced (half picture),
now Progressive: Just more definition but the same images (smoothness).50/60 has been the Broadcast standard, but the future is more fps’s. Cameras can shoot it, screens can display it. People will love to slow down that action at home.
[Michael Gissing] “The human eye doesn’t have a frame rate”
Right.
We only refresh our “brain screen” when we blink our eyes.
rafael -
Sorry for all that meaningless “technical mumbo jumbo” that just humps “creativity”.
rafael -
Oh it’s happening. 48P will be in some major films near you in the next year or so.
Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist – FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Prohttps://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos
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From what I heard back in the old days when they were figuring this stuff out, they decided 24 fps was about as slow as you can get away with. It was really a cost thing as more fps = more $$$$. But very importantly each frame rate has a look and different frame rates are better for different things. I personally like 30P a lot for the look and ease to work with. Peter Jackson I hear is going 48P. It will be interesting but it will also be a very different look and will look more video-ish and makes drama look more soap opera like but has way less motion blur which is good for fast paced stuff.
Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist – FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Prohttps://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos
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24 is the traditional film standard so 48 is the logical speed for smoother film.
In fact film, although 24 images per second is displayed at 48.
Each photogram is projected twice to avoid flickering.
rafael -
Sorry I’m late to the party, but if you had a choice right now Herb, what camera would you recommend or choose below 15k?
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“if you had a choice right now Herb, what camera would you recommend or choose below 15k?”
I’m not a cameraman, my opinion on this matter is ill informed at best. I wrote the opening rant as much to criticize Apple as Canon; I saw a link in the behavior of the two companies that I didn’t and still don’t understand – the desire to ignore an established group of loyal customers in favor of going after an imaginary larger pool of possible consumers.
As for cameras used on shoots I’m directing, for DSLRs I like the Canon 5D and the Panasonic G2, and for more traditional sized cameras with a higher budget I like the Panasonic AF100. They all have their limitations but they can produce extraordinary shots for the money, in many cases I would take away the qualifier and leave it at extraordinary shots.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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