Component or SDI, which is better quality?

[Deepblue7600]

For the record “I have not personally tried capturing DV25 through SDI”. However, I have seen short clips demonstrating the difference … It is there and I want it. What I don’t know is which deck was used for the SDI capture.

I would like to participate in the controversial method of capturing DV25 through SDI. My concern is that not all decks use identicle SDI hardware and thus may have different interpolation algorithms leading to different results. This could explain why some people observe an improvement and others don’t.

Has anyone noticed a difference between the SDI output from Sony vs. Panasonic or from model to model?

I am on the verge of aquiring an AJ-SD930P (SDI built in). Has anyone observed the SDI “improvement” with this deck?

Thanks,
Eric

[Tom Matthies]

Double check the Panny deck carefully. We have a couple of older AjD-750 decks with SDI cards. When capturing from them thru SDI, the signal comes into FCP without setup. Now, “this is normal” you say. Not quite. Even when playing out thru the IO (or back to a Digibeta for that matter), the video still continues to be without setup. Since these decks are around 8 years old, with the original firmware, this problem might have (probably has) been addressed in the newer decks. I can’t say for sure since we don’t use the decks a lot and I’ve never brought up the issue with Panasonic. Check the Panasonic deck and it’s menus carefully to see if the setup issue has been addressed.
My 2

[Philip Hodgetts]

Yes, the practical result of going SDI out of any Sony DV25 deck is better because Sony do chroma smoothing on the SDI output.

You can get exactly (actually better) the same result by capturing DV25 over FireWire an applying the Nattress GNicer filter to each clip.

In both cases you’re getting chroma smoothed back to better than 4:1:1 to closer to 4:2:2 (Sony) or 4:4:4 (nattress)

It all makes sense when you know what’s going on.

Cheers

Philip Hodgetts
https://www.proapps-hub.com
The ProApp-Hub: The convenient way to the best of what’s free and everything else you need to be productive and creative with Apple’s Professional audio and video Applications

Download Now proapps-hub

[Mitch Ives]

Tom seems to have made a pretty good case that the Panny decks are NOT doing the same thing that the Sony decks do. Philips’ post would seem to back that up. Since the 1500a plays DVCPro perhaps that’s your best bet?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com

[Mitch Ives]

To his credit, it was this very topic that gave him the idea to crete that filter. After observing my posts he emailed me and asked for more details about what I was seeing and how I determined what was in effect happening. I recommended that he get the equipment and try it himself. He told me he was interested in creating a filter or plugin that would do that.

So if nothing else, we got that option out of these discussions…

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com

[Tony]

Mitch,

The 1500A will only play DVCPRO via the component outputs not firewire.

I understand the Panasonic AJ-SD93 deck will playback dvcam,minidv,dvcpro,dvcpro 50 and has firewire as well as SDI and analog options.

I have not tested this unit yet but would like to know if dvcam will playout the firewire output.

Tony Salgado

[Mitch Ives]

Are you sure about that Tony? That was how it was in the 1500, but the “A” model was supposed to have changed that? In any event, I use the same SDI out when using DVCPro anyway…

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com

[Deepblue7600]

Philip,

Sorry to not let this thread die, but as you can see it’s peaked the interest of a few.

“Yes, the practical result of going SDI out of any Sony DV25 deck is better because Sony do chroma smoothing on the SDI output”

Jan Crittenden (Product Line Business Manager, DVCPRO50/25, AG-DVX100A) was pretty adamant that what you’re observing is not happening on any deck. This was the response to an email I sent approaching this very subject.

“They all just double up the color sample. That is the only trick. There is no interpolation is it is a double color sample. It is only marketing that says there is something special going on with the Sony deck. That is just happy hoo-haa. There is nothing to do except add a second set of color samples and that will smooth out the color.”

Do you know if it is only Sony that implements some level of color smoothing (“happy hoo-haa”) or will a deck like the Panasonic AJ-SD930 also have a smoothing effect?

Thanks,
Eric

[Philip Hodgetts]

Well, I have a lot of respect for Jan but the observation of the SDI output from the Sony is more than simple color sample doubling, that would not be appreciably better than a DV output.

Even Apple’s Color Smoothing filter in FCP 4 onward does more than simple color sample doubling and the results from the SDI output from a Sony deck (maybe from Panasonic as well, I simply haven’t tested or seen it tested) are definitely better than from DV with color smoothing.

The only thing better for color smoothing quality would be to capture DV and use Graeme Nattress’ GNicer filter nattress.com.

Maybe Sony are only doing color sample doubling, but it sure works better than simply doubling color samples.

Cheers

Philip Hodgetts
https://www.proapps-hub.com
The ProApp-Hub: The convenient way to the best of what’s free and everything else you need to be productive and creative with Apple’s Professional audio and video Applications

Download Now proapps-hub

[Mitch Ives]

That sounds more like the old Jan than the new Jan we’ve all come to admire…

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com