Avid is no bicycle

[Tae]

I can still do some decent effects in Avid. Anything more than that, I’d rather do it in AE than FCP or Avid, personally.

Just curious, in what way do you think Avid forces you to do it “their way”?

-T

[James Sullivan]

I have started in FCP and have recently learned how to cut on an AVID. I think both programs do good things. In terms of interface FCP has one and AVID has like 4. Their lower software does not match their high end ie Nitris. FCP has better keyframing and timeline features. AVID has Quick transition one of my favorite things in the world. Online offline with and avid is an enjoyable expierence. My biggest thing at this point is that they both work and they both do many things well. I am anti PC in general however. I love Quicktime and any program that uses it. I think however that AVID knows that it is AVID and will make everybody bow to its will to a certain degree. FCP comes with workable keyboard shortcuts where as with AVID you have to decide where to map everything in order to get it to work better. That can be a big leap for a lot of new users. Also I have to switch into AVID mode or FCP mode when I am using their systems. I think that FCP has learned alot from AVID and has kept some distance in order to avoid lawsuits which might be a source for some of the above comments. Anywho, I like to edit and I am glad that all of this technology is available to bitch about.
James

[Eddie Fisher]

I gotta say, If you need to get the show out, the AVID is where it’s at. (I know I’m opening myself up for a BIG hazing here) But there is light (freight train?) I started as a linear editor, then on to the Avid (one of the first ones ever built in 89ish) and have pounded and pounded them, 24/7 at times, since. Yeah there are times when they get upset and shut down, but I’ve been pounding FCP much the same way, and I feel like it just isn’t as hardcore as the Avid. I NEVER thought I would even work on FCP, being a devout avid guy, and now that I have, there are a lot of things I absolutely LOVE about it, but there are a lot of things that drive me !@&*#@!# Crazy!

I love the key framing, I hate the fact that I can’t move an entire row of keyframes all at once! And I’m not sure I’ve seen the advantage of having the keyframes stick to their assigned code unless I’m using the garbage matting – It would be nice if that was a toggle or something, as I do also get stuck on having to move keyframes to reach transitions

I love the compositing, I hate the fact that even if my clip is selected I may NOT necessarily be manipulating it when I go to my canvas and grab that slider!

I hate the fact that depending on what’s selected (or not) I may zoom here or there on my timeline.

Once again, I love the compositing, I cant STAND the fact that I can’t do multi layer trimming in multiple directions all at once, as I can in the AVID. Or make an edit and slide only track 3 & 12 down.

I CAN’T STAND the “clip colision” issue in trim. I am running into that one a lot. I hate that I can’t just double click my clips with option or control/command and be in slip or slide mode (that’s huge for me-it’s my number one weakness right now)

I can’t stand the fact that I can’t make an edit through a transition without it doing something, and having to remove the transition first. The AVID Used to have this problem in the older versions of software, now I’m spoiled.

Did I mention I love the compositing? I hate the fact that when I want to look at ONLY the first 10 layers of my build that the other 10 above it go unrendered.

I think all are pretty clear on the feelings towards Media Management, or lack of.

I love the fact that I can edit a sequence like a clip, OR as its original sources.

I have only been on FCP for about 6 months (I can hear all you guys calling me those names out there, now play nice!) and I AM warming up to it. (excuse me for a second my FCP render just crashed on the other system, I gotta go restart the computer- really it did!)

OK, so I am warming up to it, and I know I can’t expect to run it in six months like I do a machine I’ve been on nearly every day since ’89. But I am getting very fast on it, and I DO have a lot of hope for FCP. It’s growth curve appears to be that of the AVID as far as fixing this and fixing that with each release, albeit a bit slow, but at a fraction of the cost! I think my perfect flow is; offline on the avid with some on-line comping for tests, then finish on FCP/AE/Motion. I AM surprised at how much I like FCP though. I thought it would be a terrible experience, and it’s not half as bad as I thought. I CAN crash FCP 4 times a day (my average crashes for a day) Cmd/Opt S has become my minute to minute friend)compared to pound the snotts out of a PC Avid and not having it shut down for months, (the PC avid is the heartiest system I have worked on yet-2003 for 6 months, running 3 shifts a day 7 days a week, 20 layer builds, never shut down-not even quit out of the software-no system since has performed like that one) And the FCP systems here in OC all seem to have their own little personalities, you gotta spend a little time with them to find out their weaknesses before you can beat on them- seems to run by video card to card mated with drive sets a lot, and once you find the weakness you can set your watch by it. An Avid is an Avid, is an Avid (of course they only come one way) But at this rate I should be converted a lot more to FCP in the 6 months to come…. Did I mention I love the compositing?

What? You need me to jump into your linear bay and edit?……….Sure I will……for $500/hr.
ash@alphapost.tv

[Mel Matsuoka]

[Alpha1] “I love the key framing, I hate the fact that I can’t move an entire row of keyframes all at once! And I’m not sure I’ve seen the advantage of having the keyframes stick to their assigned code unless I’m using the garbage matting – It would be nice if that was a toggle or something, as I do also get stuck on having to move keyframes to reach transitions”

This is a big problem in FCP, I agree. FCP’s keyframing engine is overall, a big steaming heap o’ doodoo. And there are no improvements to it in FCP5, unfortunately. The stupid way it insists on moving keyframes along with the clip when you use the slip tool wouldn’t be all that annoying if it weren’t for the fact that FCP will not let you move a selected range of keyframes at once. Very weak, in my opinion.

[Alpha1] “I love the compositing, I hate the fact that even if my clip is selected I may NOT necessarily be manipulating it when I go to my canvas and grab that slider! “

The best way to avoid this is to use FCP’s Playhead Sync options, specifically, “Open” mode, which I’m totally in love with. This mode is especially useful when you’re doing color correction (when you DEFINITELY don’t want to be adjusting the parameters of a clip that isn’t currently visible in the viewer). The only caveat is that FCP seems to want to take itself out of “Open” mode sometimes (I havent figured out yet if it’s a random bug, or if it’s because of a specific action that I do), so I make sure to both map a keyboard shortcut to Open mode, as well as place a Button for Open mode in all my Button wells.

[Alpha1] ” I hate that I can’t just double click my clips with option or control/command and be in slip or slide mode (that’s huge for me-it’s my number one weakness right now) “

Unless I’m missing something here, why can’t you just map the Slip/Slide tools to a keyboard shortcut? You can even slip/slide a clip, right in the timeline using the numeric keypad, so you dont even have to double-click on the clip.

[Alpha1] “Did I mention I love the compositing? I hate the fact that when I want to look at ONLY the first 10 layers of my build that the other 10 above it go unrendered. “

Yep. This is one of the best features of the Avid, as far as I’m concerned. It’s funny that the NLE that has the weaker compositing tools is the one that has the better render-caching features! I see the wisdom (as far as picture quality is concerned) in FCP’s insistence on re-rendering the entire compositing stack from the original clip on up, but this should really be a user definable behavior, in my mind. When you’re working with a client looking over your shoulder, the speed of the creative process is more important than picture quality.

One would think that with all the ballyhoo about the usefulness of RTExtreme (and in FCP5, DynamicRT) that Apple would have thought to cache renders of individual clips/layers and then composite the cached renders in realtime, instead of trying to play back the entire, uncached stack all at once.

[Alpha1] “I think all are pretty clear on the feelings towards Media Management, or lack of. “

I’m thinking of taking a Hex editor to my FCP executable and changing all UI labels that say “Media Manager” to “Media MANGLER”, because FCP’s MM is truly a Media Mangler. It works great for simple projects (i.e. with no nested sequences, still frames or speed changes), get any more complex and you’ll want to pull an Elvis on your computer monitor.

[Alpha1] “I love the fact that I can edit a sequence like a clip, OR as its original sources”

I could have sworn that Avid has always had the ability to nest clips like FCP. I distinctly remember at least Avid MCXpress-NT (a truly HORRIBLE friggen product) being able to do this, even back in 1996. It surprises me to hear this touted as a major advantage of FCP over Avid, since it’s such a taken-for-granted feature with any software package that does any level of compositing.

Your overall attitude towards FCP is the right attitude to have. The problem that many people have when migrating between apps (especially ones based on near-religious fervor, like Avid) is that they base thier opinions of the product based on what it “isn’t” or doesn’t have, compared to the app which they were previously used to using. FCP is designed from entirely different philosophy from the traditional Avid philosophy, and if you expect FCP to do things the same way that Avid does things, you will *never* be happy with it.

I was a Discreet edit* user for many years (and an Avid MCX user for several years before that), and when I first started using FCP, I wanted to throw the friggen Mac out the window, because it made no sense to me and worked in ways that seemed antithetical to the way I would previously edit with blazing speed in Discreet edit*.
It took me a full year of daily editing in FCP to really start appreciating how great it is, and now I can’t go back to anything else (although I often like to brag that Discreet edit* was able to do 9-source multicam even back in early 2001, even on a lowly single CPU 500MHz Pentium III box!).

Aloha,
mel

[George Mandl]

I just got to LA a few months ago, and have not used an Avid since Media Composer, which is what I learned to cut on in college, in 1999. Now I’ve been editing professionally for 5 years, and love using FCP. I haven’t touched an Avid in my pro career. But now that I’m in LA, every other job opportunity is on the Avid. And I can’t take those gigs. Help! Where does an FCP proficient editor go to learn how to use the high-end Avid stuff? Hopefully as an FCP editor in LA, you can shed some light. Its not that I want to switch, but I want to get good enough at both so I can work more gigs. There is a book called something like “Final Cut Pro for Avid editors”. When is the reverse title coming out?

Thanks,
George