-
Apple engineers versus an editor’s ability to set persistent in to out points in their footage.
-
yes exactly – its hard to see why there could not be a default private favourites list that we don’t see, but that is populated with the current set in out points per clip, if I go to make a favourite or keyword the range at a later point, then it would be deleted from the private auto favourite list.
As you say – auto favourite, but I don’t even see why I would have to know. I would simply have persistent in to out points. Certain people saying for the thousandth time, that misgivings about a shortcoming in this application represents nostalgia for FCP7, I find frankly irritating and completely redundant at this point.
Like I say – I was very surprised that Phillip Hodgetts, after thinking about it, felt it was likely impossible. there has to be way to get it going, unless there is, as Mees wonders, some real, serious problems with the database architecture.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
[Craig Seeman] “I think people are bothered by having to hit the F key all the time as it’s too easy to wander off and lose the range. Over time, hitting that extra key or the extra work when one forgets, can cumulatively slow people down during a session. Having to be conscious of such almost seems antithetical to a “the app gets out of the way to let you edit” philosophy. Personally the only answer that might fall within FCPX’s model (or programers model for it) is the “auto favorite.””
I guess I see it differently. When I mark something, it’s usually for a reason.
In 7, there many times I don’t mark a clip with an extended marker, and I then have to try and figure out where that one slice of footage is amongst bins and folders. In X I can simply hit a favorite and come back later. It will get me so much closer, faster then double clicking and scrubbing a ton of clips in 7.
Also, auto-fave would turn in to a mess. Then how do you know which ones are truly your faves, and which one is just the auto-fave? Does that mean when I click on a clip and the whole range is selected, is that now my auto-fave?
Or are you saying that auto-fave would be a different color/schema all together?
-
[Aindreas Gallagher] “this really has nothing to do with FCP7”
Uhm. Yes it does?
You are asking X to work like 7. It doesn’t.
If the question is, “is there a way to “store” ranges in fcpx?”
The answer:
There’s a way to “store” ins and out on browsed clips.
Fcpx calls them favorites.
You hit f to store, you hit u to unstore.
It’s really easy and rather powerful, especially when you can combine them with keyword collections or markers.
It takes a bit of getting used to, but I have found that as the edit moves forward, those favorites really help me stay organized and provide constant reminders of what I have browsed and perhaps what I haven’t.
Jeremy
-
It’s obvious you haven’t tried this.
You should try it. Not just open a clip and hit f, but actually go through and entire edit that takes a week or more.
Learn the keyboard shortcuts. It’s not that bad, and perhaps might work differently than what you might be used to in whatever editing NLE you came from before fcpx.
Jeremy
-
[Jeremy Garchow] “it’s obvious you haven’t tried this.”
is it now?
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
Yeah.
-
[Jeremy Garchow] “I guess subclips to me, are compared to fcp7s “make subclip” feature which I never use as it’s limiting for me. I use extended makerers instead, and favorites is just like that, only better, in my opinion, as they are truly persistent.”
I agree. I don’t use subclips in FCP because I find them inflexible. FCPX is much better with its approach. No question.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If you don’t like of the range goes away and don’t want to be bothered with favoriting that range, you could simply add that clip to your timeline in which ever manner you want. “
I call that making an edit. That’s not what I necessarily want to do at the time.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “I want the in and out points associated with that action to remain – but this does not mean that it is in any way a nominated favourite.
If we are going to start default using favourites as the function of retaining in to out ranges, then it is no longer a favourite function. It is the “retain in to out” by pressing an extra key every single time.
The favourites list is no longer a favourites list, it is a random assemblage of every time I set an in to out point.”
This idea is key. Setting in/outs often have nothing to do with the range itself. Range is implicit when setting in/outs, but very often, the editor is using in/outs to set up the next edit. The focus is on the in/outs as transition points. The range just comes along for the ride.
Favorites/keywords emphasize and save the range. There’s nothing wrong with this, it’s a totally useful thing. But it’s a different thing than an in/out.
We set In/outs constantly as a means of setting up the next edit. Hundreds of times during a session. It’s very specific to the immediate context. It’s a tool and nothing more. Aindreas is exactly right. If every in/out has to be marked as a favorite, than favorites become completely meaningless.
Like I said earlier, the distinction between range and in/out is subtle and one that is easily lost on non-editors — and just to be clear, I’m defining non-editors as those who spend less than 90% of their time cutting. I don’t know any advanced editor who thinks about an edit in terms of ranges. It’s all about the cut. In/outs are about marking the cut and taking action right now, in context. It’s a different way of seeing that comes from years of experience.
Again, favorites/keywords are good things. I like them. And if they do everything you need, fantastic. I actually think we’re talking apples/oranges. In/outs are different thing with a different emphasis used for a different purpose.
I don’t see any reason why in/outs and the favorite/keywording system couldn’t co-exist. I also have a background in programming (it’s been a while but still) and I disagree with Hodgetts’ assessment. I think it’s a UI decision, not a technical one.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
i know the shortcuts pretty decently Jeremy – couching another persons different point of view in ignorance, nostalgia for an EOL product, or lack of skill or awareness becomes increasingly irritating over time.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
[Jeremy Garchow] “In X I can simply hit a favorite and come back later. It will get me so much closer, faster then double clicking and scrubbing a ton of clips in 7.”
Agree but . . .
Typical working situation is one marks a range in the Event Browser and then one goes off to check something in the timeline or another clip in the Event Browser without hitting the F Key. The problem is hitting the F is one more keystroke and it’s forgotten too often. For many, hitting the F key interrupts the stream of conscious when one wants to check something else before going back to a range.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Also, auto-fave would turn in to a mess. Then how do you know which ones are truly your Faves, and which one is just the auto-fave? Does that mean when I click on a clip and the whole Range is selected, is that now my auto-fave? “
It “auto favorites” ONLY when one moves to another clip. It doesn’t replace the act of favoriting. It’s an additional method to favorite. When you get back to the clip, if you don’t want to retain the Favorite you select U just as one might hit Shift X to clear in/out in FCP7. If you don’t hit U it remains in your Favorites. In FCP7 if you don’t hit Shift X that persists as well. One might even make Auto Favorite a Preference Option to be used by those who want a Range to be persistent.
-
[Aindreas Gallagher] “i know the shortcuts pretty decently Jeremy – couching another persons different point of view in ignorance, nostalgia for an EOL product, or lack of skill or awareness becomes increasingly irritating over time.”
And so does saying “persistent in and outs” when favorites, or whatever you want to call them, are exactly that, Andy.
They hang around until you delete them. They are persistent.
If you didn’t know how fcp7 worked, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. We can agree on that, right?
I’m not saying that favorites is the best way to handle things, but right now, today, it’s how it works in fcpx.
It has noting to do with skill, nothing to do with couching my ignorances, or lack of awareness.
It’s how it works. Today. It is quite literally the buttons you need to push to save an in and an out.
The PPro time in works differently, too, as does an avid timeline. They have their own buttons, these are fcpx’s buttons. Ii is really that easy, no?
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up