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Apple and databases
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[David Lawrence] “The connection is here:
“Some issues with iCloud Core Data are theoretically unsolvable (stemming from the fact that you’ve put an object model on top of a distributed data store) and others are just plain bugs in the implementation…”
“Because of this there is a lot of fragility to the implementation, and I’m not sure it will ever scale well to larger data sets…””No, it’s not. The statement is about iCloud Core Data. “Some issues with iCloud Core Data are theoretically unsolvable…”. You are making the connection.
[David Lawrence] “I believe the same is true with the magnetic timeline’s hierarchical, single primary, parent/child, relative time model. I don’t think it will scale. Without absolute, external time, I don’t see how it can ever really support parallel, independent media streams such as multi-channel audio in a DAW. I don’t think roles will ever be enough. I believe the absolute, external time frame of reference is essential.”
That;s a lot of believing. 🙂 I beleive that X supports “parallel, independent media streams such as multi-channel audio in a DAW”. You just can’t run them through a “mixer” yet. Admit it, you just don’t like the timeline. 😉
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[David Lawrence] “I would not want a DAW with a magnetic timeline. Would you?”
Not one that functions in the same way as FCPX does at the moment, I use Logic Pro a lot and I’m assuming the new one won’t be following the same model.
I still think Apple may come up with something to tempt Editors who much prefer to work the way you do, I would imagine the previously discussed “fixed lanes” idea would be the most obvious. I don’t think it would be impossible to implement this, despite your concerns about core data.
The fact you can almost set the “fixed lanes” now as well as the addition of the tilde key modifier which breaks the parent child link, albeit temporarily, means it is possible in theory.
Whether Apple wants to do it is a whole other question
Steve Connor
There’s nothing we can’t argue about on the FCPX COW Forum
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you don’t have any truck with david’s reading of the point that the fundamental issue might lie with the core data model itself?
not to mention that there’s four guys and a cat at apple handling the whole thing?https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Steve Connor] “Not one that functions in the same way as FCPX does at the moment, I use Logic Pro a lot and I’m assuming the new one won’t be following the same model.”
Yes and from the hints so far, it looks like it’s still a regular, tracked timeline model. I think there’s a reason for this. I think this reason is why some editors like myself don’t feel comfortable with the magnetic timeline.
[Steve Connor] “I still think Apple may come up with something to tempt Editors who much prefer to work the way you do, I would imagine the previously discussed “fixed lanes” idea would be the most obvious. I don’t think it would be impossible to implement this, despite your concerns about core data.”
Agreed. I think the “fixed lanes” idea is interesting. But I would go further and allow multiple primaries in a “fixed time” window. If they did that, they could keep everything else the same and it would work for me as well as for you.
[Steve Connor] “The fact you can almost set the “fixed lanes” now as well as the addition of the tilde key modifier which breaks the parent child link, albeit temporarily, means it is possible in theory.”
Yes, but doesn’t the tilde key modifier only affect the connected clips attached to the primary clip you’re manipulating? Is there a way to make all connected clips stay put if you want? Something like Shift-tilde? That would make a big difference for me.
[Steve Connor] “Whether Apple wants to do it is a whole other question”
Indeed.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Charlie Austin] “I beleive that X supports “parallel, independent media streams such as multi-channel audio in a DAW”. You just can’t run them through a “mixer” yet.”
Not without a bunch of hackery 😉
[Charlie Austin] “Admit it, you just don’t like the timeline. ;-)”
OK, I admit it! 😉
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “But I would go further and allow multiple primaries in a “fixed time” window. If they did that, they could keep everything else the same and it would work for me as well as for you. “
Very good idea, will feature request that one
Steve Connor
There’s nothing we can’t argue about on the FCPX COW Forum
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “you don’t have any truck with david’s reading of the point that the fundamental issue might lie with the core data model itself?
Nope, because it doesn’t say there’s a problem with the Core Data model, it says there’s a possible problem with the iCloud Core Data synching model.
[Aindreas Gallagher] not to mention that there’s four guys and a cat at apple handling the whole thing?”
A cat?!? Crap! I guess I need to go re-read the article again…
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
Aindreas, Chris, Charlie, David, et al.,
I’m going to go out on a limb and hazard a guess that we’re all out of our depth here (except maybe Chris since he’s used the secret password phrase “object graph”) – basing this guess on the fact that no one has yet pointed out that Core Data is not a database:
https://maniacdev.com/2010/02/using-iphone-core-data-vs-a-database/
Which is maybe why Andrew Richards talks about Core Data in conjunction with SQLite in my previously linked post:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/43894
Which is why I’d love to hear his take on this. But it isn’t really apparent that it’s relevant to the way FCPX works.
At least I’ve learned today that an object and data are not the same thing (though I don’t really know what the difference is – I suppose objects need to be managed after being graphed, while data needs to be based).
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “Aindreas, Chris, Charlie, David, et al.,
I’m going to go out on a limb and hazard a guess that we’re all out of our depth here (except maybe Chris since he’s used the secret password phrase “object graph”) – basing this guess on the fact that no one has yet pointed out that Core Data is not a database:
https://maniacdev.com/2010/02/using-iphone-core-data-vs-a-database/
Which is maybe why Andrew Richards talks about Core Data in conjunction with SQLite in my previously linked post:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/43894
Which is why I’d love to hear his take on this. But it isn’t really apparent that it’s relevant to the way FCPX works.
“Thank Franz, I can hear the sound of clutched straws snapping
Steve Connor
There’s nothing we can’t argue about on the FCPX COW Forum
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oh indeed -I’m totally making all this up myself. As you say – the only voice I would buy would be Andrew Richards.
In the quote he does cast doubt on the repeated calls to the SQL database from the timeline tho. there – don’t I almost sound plausible there like.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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