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And the lightbulb goes on…
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Simon,
You do realize that the numbers I posted weren’t from his user survey answers?
But, rather, let’s instead assume that all his charts and numbers are utterly unreliable – a not unreasonable position.
[Simon Ubsdell] “X’s total sales to date have surely got to exceed sales of all other NLE’s ever produced combined – times a large factor.”
This is an absurd statement that comes across as grandly myopic.
Franz.
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[Steve Connor] “I would argue that FCPX market share is already considerably higher than Vegas has ever been”
Which is why, in my previous post to you I said the comparison was “market penetration aside.”
Now, you can argue that market penetration trumps everything else, which is fair enough, but I still find a similarity between Vegas and X, much like I always found a strong similarity between Motion and X, in terms of how a novel approach to an established workflow can face serious traction issues, even with Apple behind it.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Franz Bieberkopf] “This is an absurd statement that comes across as grandly myopic.”
It’s called comic exaggeration for rhetorical effect. Apologies for being flippant.
My point was simply that volume of sales and market share in the professional NLE arena don’t necessarily correlate.
I suspect on no reliable grounds that FCP X has had huge sales to the wider population – a population that is vaster by many magnitudes than the tiny professional editing community – that don’t necessarily reflect its penetration or lack of it in the professional market.
That’s all.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Herb Sevush] “Which is why, in my previous post to you I said the comparison was “market penetration aside.”
Now, you can argue that market penetration trumps everything else, which is fair enough, but I still find a similarity between Vegas and X, much like I always found a strong similarity between Motion and X, in terms of how a novel approach to an established workflow can face serious traction issues, even with Apple behind it.
“Didn’t notice that caveat – In that case I agree!
Steve Connor
There’s nothing we can’t argue about on the FCPX COW Forum
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “It seems to me that the “bottom-up” revolution in NLEs could well be Vegas.
“Who knows? I’m sure lots of people use it, I’ve just never met one
Steve Connor
There’s nothing we can’t argue about on the FCPX COW Forum
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[Steve Connor] “I’m sure lots of people use it, I’ve just never met one”
Our very own Lance Bachelder is/was a user and proponent of Vegas, which is why it would be good for him to weigh-in here. If you mean you’ve never met one in person, well just sub in “FCPX” for “Vegas” and the same is true for me.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Simon Ubsdell] “My point was simply that volume of sales and market share in the professional NLE arena don’t necessarily correlate.”
Simom, Agreed.
[Simon Ubsdell] “I suspect on no reliable grounds that FCP X has had huge sales to the wider population – a population that is vaster by many magnitudes than the tiny professional editing community – that don’t necessarily reflect its penetration or lack of it in the professional marke”
It might be (we just don’t know), but iMovie (to take one example) is likely more widely used (not least because of the iPad) – so if your point is about the value of widely used software, iMovie is proabably a better example. When you don’t restrict yourself to Macs (which, after all, are still a small fraction of sales), the picture of which NLEs get used, and how, becomes more complex still.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “if your point is about the value of widely used software”
I wasn’t making any point at all about value, sorry if it came across as though I was.
I’m entirely agnostic here 😉
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Charlie Austin] “In a weird way, cutting mostly in X has made me faster in legacy. 😉 I find myself using shortcuts I didn’t really use before I “discovered” them in X. Despite the popular wisdom, and setting aside magnetism, X and 7 work in very similar ways. “
Sitting beside a very experienced FCP trainer at the Supermeet, lo these many years gone, I was treated to pretty much a running commentary on how all these new “features” of X were just simplifications of techniques that already existed in Legacy. To me, the “trackless” layout was essentially a continuously “re-nested” sequence, that was continuously shoving decisions behind the curtain, where the Might Oz was huffing and puffing to keep track of where all that stuff was being positioned, assigning arbitrary hierarchies (roles?) that the foreground editor at the user interface neither cared for, nor worried about.
You really only have to unpack an X project in Resolve, which tries to unstack all the decisions that are laying latent to realize just how pell-mell the behind-the-scenes structure is being constructed. Like Lucy stuffing too many pies coming down the assembly line into not enough boxes.
At the end of the presentation, I loved his comment… “have they not read their own manual?”
Probably not, in actual fact — but then again they are building these products for people who are notoriously persistent in their deliberate ignore-ance of accompanying literature.
jPo
“I always pass on free advice — its never of any use to me” Oscar Wilde.
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[Joseph Owens] “assigning arbitrary hierarchies (roles?) that the foreground editor at the user interface neither cared for, nor worried about.”
Well, FWIW, assigning Roles is the job of the editor, and they are, to me, way more helpful than tracks… except visually for now. You can also quite easily put clips where you want them in the timeline. Methods for more finely manipulating the visual layout in the timeline need some work though.
[Joseph Owens] “You really only have to unpack an X project in Resolve, which tries to unstack all the decisions that are laying latent to realize just how pell-mell the behind-the-scenes structure is being constructed.”
In my experience, video clips stack just the same in X as they do in anything else. And you really only need to open an audio sequence exported using x2Pro to see how nicely Roles can split out and organize clips for a tracked NLE.
[Joseph Owens] “but then again they are building these products for people who are notoriously persistent in their deliberate ignore-ance of accompanying literature.”
Really? Interesting.
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~
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