AE performance: PC vs Bootcamp MAC

[Aaron Zander]

I have little experience with bootcamp and dual booting, what experience I do have suggests few problems. The thing that I can offer you is the macbook pro as well as the mac pro have been rated as the best PC’s for gaming and graphic design by multiple magazines and resources. sorry I can’t offer substantial data, but it is a very stable platform

edit-
also many plugin makers will allow you to exchange mac to pc serials and keep on trucking with what you have.

[David Hartwell]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like something Apple would push for since many graphic designers and animators went to the PC in the late 90’s because of a better performance/price ratio and now might be contemplating coming back. If gamers are happy, probably a hint that Bootcamp is a sound concept.

[Jason Jenkins]

I’ve had a Mac Pro for a year and I’ve been using mostly XP via Bootcamp during that time. Only one shortcoming that I can think of; XP will only “see” 2 GB of RAM and ignore the rest. Whether AE 8 is able to access the “invisible” RAM or not, I don’t know, as I’m still running AE 7.

Oh, and when you buy your Mac Pro, don’t even think about not buying the AppleCare protection. A month ago my Mac Pro completely died. Wouldn’t even turn on. They ended up replacing the power supply and the logic board. I didn’t lose any data, but I would have been out about $1,500 if I hadn’t had the AppleCare!

[Tim Wilson]

I’m just about where you are, David. Almost all of my apps are Win. About two-thirds of them are available on the Mac, but why spend 3 or 4 thousand dollars or more to replace apps that are still in their prime?

[David Hartwell] “My question is: with equal processors (Harpertown or clovertown for that matter) RAM and graphics, how does a Mac running AE or C4D on XP via Bootcamp compare to a PC running those same apps?”

There’s no meaningful difference at all.

A couple of things to note:

1) The Bootcamp beta under Tiger had a minor performance penalty, around 5%: on a 60 minute render, that’s 3 minutes. Again, not really worth talking about.

The release version of Bootcamp running under Leopard has zero penalty. You’ve now got a Windows machine with the same specs as the Mac.

2) 3D apps are much more pleasant to use on PC because the display cards are soooooo much faster. I’m amazed that Mac users aren’t swarming Cupertino with torches and pitchforks. I think it’s truly scandalous.

3) [David Hartwell] “Most users out there who have experimented with Bootcamp are either gamers or weekend photoshop users. I’d like to here from someone for whom AE (and other really intensive graphic apps) is their bread and butter.”

First, there are few more intense graphic applications than games. The issues running games under Bootcamp have everything to do with slow video cards with limited support for advanced display technologies. So don’t dismiss gamers’ experience as not applicable so fast.

(Rise up fellow Mac users! Join me on the ramparts and demand better display cards!)

I don’t have any proof of this, but my own poking around suggests that, after games and productivity apps, the most common use of Windows on Mac machines is architecture apps, notably, ArchiCAD.

With zero performance penalty, other than screen responsiveness, what’s not to love? Architects, far more than AE-ers, are obsessed with the look of things. They’ve been thrilled to hop on pretty, pretty Macs, and still use the only software that matters to them, which will be on Windows until the sun goes nova.

Okay, and 3D guys. They’re willing to use slower video cards because the processor speed is fine. The real world once again overwhelms the stats. 🙂

Seriously, not something to sweat. Real artists doing real heavyweight work are digging it.

4) There are ways to run Windows and the Mac OS at the same time, which I’m enjoying more than I thought I would. Related to that, running virtualization apps on laptops, is the only way — despite Apple’s claims otherwise — to get access to all the touchpad’s features. The big one missing is tapping the trackpad to click. Heinous.

5) For virtualization in our world, skip Parallels, a performance pig and only has access to a single processor. Much better to go with VMware Fusion, which performs significantly better and uses all the processors you’ve got.

Anyway, I know that only the first part of this actually answers your question, but I’ve been thinking about this stuff a lot.

One of the things I’ve been wondering is if we need a forum to deal with the whole Windows on a Mac thing. I’m certainly up for it if folks feel like it would be useful….

tw

Tim Wilson, Creative Cow
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[Brendan Coots]

Consider this:

– Windows XP can only address 4GB RAM max. Each process can only access 2GB of that (unless you enable the 3GB switch in your boot.ini file). This means that After Effects CS3, which will only use multiple processors if there is 2GB RAM per core available, can ONLY use two of your cores on a quad-mac. Since the OS only “sees” 4GB of your RAM, only two cores will be used. note – You can get around this by allocating smaller amounts of RAM per core in the AE settings, but performance suffers so badly that it doesn’t matter more cores are being used.

– Windows XP 64-bit can address 128GB RAM, and would therefore be able to fully utilize all the RAM you stuff in your mac. Allocating 2GB per process, 8GB RAM would sufficiently allow After Effects CS3 to run all four cores. You may want 1GB extra to account for OS overhead, etc.

– OS X, being natively 64-bit, can also theoretically address 128GB RAM although the current Mac Pros can only physically handle 16GB RAM.

Given that using Boot Camp should give you identical performance from the CPU and other hardware, the RAM is the primary factor when considering performance. If you run out and buy a Mac Pro quad and install Windows XP on it, you are immediately denying yourself access to HALF of your CPU power when running After Effects. If you must run Windows on your mac, at least use XP 64-bit.

Also, note that many software vendors (Adobe included) have a cross-grade program where, for only the cost of shipping the disc, they will swap your PC software license for a Mac license. You have to fill out some paperwork that nullifies your existing license and a new one is issued, but at least that way you don’t have to go buy the software you already own all over again.

[David Hartwell]

The 2GB limit is inherent to Windows, not a Bootcamp issue. There is a tweak to increase it to 3GB. I’ve been using Windows x64 which doesn’t have a per app RAM limitation. Not officially supported by Bootcamp, but have read about users who have intalled it on their Mac, and “screams” or so they claim.

I agree with your comment about AppleCare. This is where the PC is a better option, the spare parts are readily available and easy to replace, and cheaper, but guess that’s the same argument GM owners have when jealously eyeing a Mercedes…

[David Hartwell]

Thanks for the info beenyweenies,
Running x64 on my PC myself because of those same RAM limitations. Besides the RAM, X64 is a far more stable OS standard XP. Bootcamp doesn’t officially support it, but read some success stories about installing it on a Mac, and apparently it shines.

[David Hartwell]

Tim,
Thanks for the info. This really helps. I agree with you that the Archi crowd should look into this. My wife’s an architect and a teacher. She uses a PC, and all her students do too. They love the idea of a Mac, as much as a pair of new Prada shoes, but cannot make the leap because of the apps they use, which are more or less all Windows based. I think that Apple should evangelize this thing to the graphics and CAD pros. I’m currently using x64 on my PC and will try to install it on a soon to be purchased Mac. Not officially supported by Apple but read about some users who’ve installed it painlessly. Considering your performance info/tests (thanks again)this is something I really want to try out. Seems like the best of both worlds coming together in the best looking box. And, yes a MAC/Bootcamp/Windows forum would be great!

Will keep you guys posted on my progress and hopefully successes.

Thanks

[Jason Jenkins]

I wasn’t referring to how much RAM each Windows app can use, but how much RAM Windows can recognize in the system overall. My understanding is that Windows XP 32-bit can “see” up to 4 GB. In the case of Bootcamp it can only “see” 2 GB.

[Julian Sixx]

Hi

[beenyweenies] “Also, note that many software vendors (Adobe included) have a cross-grade program where, for only the cost of shipping the disc, they will swap your PC software license for a Mac license”

I own production Studio Premium for PC.I’m planning now to upgrade to CS3 for the Mac.Yes,i’m about to switch from Pc=>Mac.
So,there should be no problem at all,right?

But will i still be able to run Production Studio Premium on my Pc?

Thx