A few questions re: proxy editing, large video/project, and a weird blac preview screen problem (Windows PC – Vegas Pro 12)

[Blake Gibson]

John, I downloaded gopro studio and it doesn’t seem to recognise the prores files, or DNXHD files. It regonises my h264 files from canon 5D3 though.

[John Rofrano]

[Blake Gibson] “I was speaking to a guy that routinely edites using premiere CC on windows and edits with large prores hq files and h264 over 500 clips and doesn’t have any issues, so its’ not a windows issue, just a vegas issue like you said. “

Yes, Premiere wrote their own support for QuickTime files so they don’t have this limitation. It’s important to note that Premiere is cross platform so they have Mac developers which probably helped them support QuickTime on Windows better and it’s in their best interest to do so for their Windows customers who interact with their Mac customers.

[Blake Gibson] “What about if I transcode to DNXHD and start again?”

Nope. DNxHD is QuickTime codec so it has the same limitations in Vegas Pro. You need to use AVI, MTS, or MXF and not MOV files.

[Blake Gibson] “I thought this is what creating proxies was for, isn’t it supposed to transcode it into a more edit friendly format, then link back to the originals for exporting?”

Yes, assuming that your NLE can load the originals for export. The problem is that Vegas Pro can’t do this! So proxies won’t help. You need a Digital Intermediary (DI) not a proxy.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[John Rofrano]

[Blake Gibson] “I downloaded gopro studio and it doesn’t seem to recognise the prores files, or DNXHD files. It regonises my h264 files from canon 5D3 though.”

Yea, I wasn’t sure if it would but it was worth a shot. I was just trying to find you a free solution.

My plug-in VASST GearShift $49 USD can do the batch rendering for you. Now that you have the CineForm codec from GoPro Studio, you can crate a template in Vegas Pro and use it with GearShift. Just load all of your QuickTime files into GearShift and select the CineForm template and it will load the QuickTime files one at a time and render them to CineForm. So you could have 1000 QuickTime files it doesn’t matter, it’s only going to load one at a time and render it to a new file.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Aaron Star]

As John states above, VASST makes batch rendering add-on for Vegas. Vegas also comes with batch rendering scripts that are not as full featured. The Vegas script basically turns the Vegas timeline into a batch render queue.

Mainly you would just drop a reasonable amount of clips on a Vegas timeline and have Vegas create them for you. There is a Vegas script that will auto add regions by clip event, then the another batch render script will render the regions as separate files. I altered the default script to use the region names as file names. Otherwise the default script uses a weird auto naming with codec type and bitrate for names.

The workflow is very much the like old AVID days when all media was converted to the AVID codec to be worked. In this case you are converting to the Sony/Vegas codec to be edited. If you are not scaling you could render in GOOD quality for better speed, but compare the results on your system to see if this is worth it.

Make sure to do your conversion in FP32 video levels, or you will lose your 10bit video information, and end up with 8-bit files inside broadcast codec.

[Blake Gibson]

Aaron, when you say “Make sure to do your conversion in FP32 video levels, or you will lose your 10bit video information, and end up with 8-bit files inside broadcast codec.” Do you mean when making the proxies make sure the project is 32bit floating? Because doesn’t it link back to the originals when exporting anyway? I normally export in 10bit DNXHD from Vegas and I’ve checked in mediainfo and it retains the 10bit. (this is good to know even if proxies are not going to work for my current dilemma).

I’m not exactly clear on whether or not you’re saying I can render/export from Vegas as a different format, eg: drop my prores files into vegas, render/export out as something else more vegas friendly (I noticed Vegas has a cineform option under AVI) and have them all as seperate files even though they’re all in the one timeline in Vegas. This would be good as I need to convert all my prores files for this project.

Sorry but I’m a bit confused!

That said, going back to your original post, what is the best way to convert to HDCAM-SR? If from Vegas, again: is it possible to batch process a selection of files (say 30 at a time to get around the iosurrogate error) them all as seperate files?

Thanks!

[Blake Gibson]

Thanks John. So this gets around the iosurrogate 32bit issue? Thats great. My question is, is cineform the best option? In your first reply you said “Maybe Cineform or Sony MXF”, and Aaron says HDCAM-SR might be really good too and won’t have the same issues as prores/dnxhd.

I had a look at your link, does it convert to any other files too? Like Sony MXF or something just in case Cineform isn’t the best option?

[Aaron Star]

There are 2 separate discussions here. One on building proxies, and the other is just convert your Prores to HDCAM and edit. Clearly the proxy editing of the prores content has a show stopper, without busting up your edit into smaller chunks. Proxy edit is up to the editor to determine the best workflow that maintains the image quality from the source.

If you need to go to edit Prores and deliver in Prores, then edit on FCP.

I have never gotten the AVI to Cineform to work on my Vegas. I think I need the actual licensed version of Cineform to write that format, and the codec installed is read only.

If you are doing 10-bit or higher work, you should be doing your math with a precision higher than 8-bit (vegas project default.) The codec will compress what ever you feed it and store it a 422 10-bit file format. You can feed the codec 1-bit black or white video, but the codec will store that image as 10-bit 422.

Edit picture in 8-bit for speed. Color correct, set blurs, and render finals in fp32vl.

Converting to HDCAM, yes use Vegas timeline in groups of files.

Try your own timeline playback test on your footage in FP32VL project mode. On my machine the ProresHQ 24p clip I found:

Prores-HQ playback (170Mbs) is 16FPS

DNxHD conversion (210mbs-10bit)is 8FPS

HDCAM SR (360mbs-10bit) is 21.5FPS – showing lower overhead and optimization

HDCAM SR Lite (180mbs-10bit) is 21.5 FPS

Try scrubbing on the timeline quickly back and forth:

ProRes the frame counter gives a single wait indicator occasionally(…) as Vegas indexes to the frame.

DNxHD – the frame counter gives .. wait indicators (…) as Vegas indexes to the frame.

HDCAM no … indicators and instant scrubbing.

In 8-bit project mode that optimization in playback means smoother dissolves and more layers of composites with smooth playback, or real time effects.

[Blake Gibson]

Thanks for that Aaron, I will try HDCAM-SR for sure. I think SR-Lite will be fine, as the bitrate is pretty much the same as the prores originals I think (185 @25p)

And I will switch to 32bit FP project prior to exporting ALWAYS now. Thanks for that tip again.

So, onto the converting of my prores from Vegas, I’m still not 100% clear on this process(sorry!)

I’m assuming I’ll import say, 20 prores files just to be safe, push them all together in my timeline and export those 20 prores files as 1 HDCAM file? Or is there a way to batch process those 20 files so they come out as 20 separate HDCAM files?

Do you know of any third party programs that can batch process from prores to HDCAM-SR? I like cliptoolz converter v2 but that doesn’t have HDCAM-SR, it has:

Prores, h.264, h.265, dnxhd, OP1a MXF, MPEG Intra, MJPEG 220M, Wrap to MOV, QL RLE RGBA, OP1 ATOM MXF, TIFF 48-bit (more info down the bottom of this page: https://hdcinematics.com/ClipToolz-ConvertV2-UserGuide.html)

[Aaron Star]

“I’m assuming I’ll import say, 20 prores files just to be safe, push them all together in my timeline and export those 20 prores files as 1 HDCAM file? Or is there a way to batch process those 20 files so they come out as 20 separate HDCAM files?”

Yes you have the rough idea, Vegas would be your batch tool using scripting.

You should read the help file on how to run scripts in Vegas.

Basically you go to Tools > Scripting > select the script you want to run.

Download this .zip file : Vegas-Region-Batch.zip

Copy the scripts to your Vegas Script folder:
“C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 13.0\Script Menu”

Open Vegas and you should see the scripts under the Tools > Scripting menu.

#1 adds regions to all clip events on the timeline.

#2 batch renders the clip regions to whatever codec you choose, or multiple codecs you choose.

You can use “Edit Details” window to copy&paste selected event names to the region names, or
just type the name you want into the region name field / Timeline Flag.

Then run # 2 script to batch encode, and ignore the file naming field as this will be the region name.

[Blake Gibson]

Excellent! Thank you Aaron! I will do it overnight *fingers crossed*

I’m currently doing HDCAM SR tests and by the looks of things it’s VERY close to DNXHD.

I normally export from Vegas as DNXHD 185 RGB, then run it through handbrake to get a good h264 for web. But because I can’t export the large project to DNXHD with the 32bit/fileiosurrogate issues, I will need to export to something else first that won’t kill vegas. I’m experimenting with Lagarith, then running that through handbrake and so far the quality results are equally good. Or maybe h264 straight from Vegas but handbrake is visibly better

I’m assuming any of the AVI codecs will work and won’t have the issue?