720p60 – “shooting rate”???

[Jeremy Garchow]

Yikes.

ALl the ‘non normal’ frame rates are offspeed shots (Fast or slow motion).

The 1080 stuff you will have to convert to 720 by putting in the timeline and rendering.

The biggest choice you have to make is what resolution and frame rate to edit it. My guess would be 720p24.

Jeremy

[David Jahns]

But all of those clips were shot at 720p59.94 – not 7 or 42 frames per second – most of them play just fine as 60fp shots – except the ones that had 30 in the “shooting rate” column. It’s like that “shooting rate” column assigned random numbers or something.

I wish I could post screenshots to illustrate – maybe no one else has had this problem?

Yes – I will edit at 720p24 – and run all of the 1080 footage thru compressor to downconvert – which looks much better than FCP’s Batch Export downconvert. Thanks!

Dave

[Russell Lasson]

What a pain! Good luck with it!

-Russ

[Jeremy Garchow]

you should read up on how this camera works with offspeed footage. basically, the offspeed stuff is captured in a 60p sequence, you then have to remove the redundant frames to get to the frames you really need, shooting in ‘N’ mode alleviates this. This is exactly how the Varicam works with it’s offspeed material as well.

Jeremy

[David Jahns]

Thanks for your help Jeremy. (I’m having all sorts of problems today, eh??)

I guess I’m not explaining myself well. None of the footage I am referring to was shot with any variable speed frame rates. It all plays in real-time, regardless of what the “Shooting Rate” column says – the 720p24 plays 60fps with 2:3 duplicated frames – and the 720p60 stuff plays 59.94 progressive frames.

Here’s a screen grab of my import screen:

https://homepage.mac.com/jahns/P2_Import.png

The highlighted clip (with shooting rate 30) plays 60 frames in realtime, but gets imported as 29.97 with jumps in time ever few frames – all of the other clips import fine and play as expected. And P2 Log Pro can create the QT file properly from this same clip, so I’ve found a workaround, I’m just trying to determine what the heck is going on, and how to avoid this problem in the future.

I’ve posted the FCP imported version at:

https://homepage.mac.com/jahns/0010GY-30.mov

If you step through it frame by frame, you notice jumps in time – it was definitely shot at 60fps – so why does “Shooting rate” say 30 – or any of those other rates when it was NOT shot variable?

[Jeremy Garchow]

[David Jahns] “None of the footage I am referring to was shot with any variable speed frame rates.”

guess what? It sure was! As I said, you should really read up on how the Varicam works. The Varicam (in your case HVX 200 has most of the same principles) ALWAYS records 720p60. BUt the Varicam is capable of shooting variable frame rates. When it does shoot those variable frame rates, it pads those specific frames with extra frames (like the ones you see repeating). The reason they repeat the frames is so that it can be recorded to a 720p60 stream, the only stream a Varicam tape understands. You need to remove those redundant (i.e. repeated) frames to get yourself to the unique frames in that 720p60 sequence. How do you do that you ask? Well, there’s a couple of ways. In the import preferences, you see that little gear at the top right corner that’s a drop down menu? Open the preferences up there and you will see an option to remove redundant frames on import. This will remove them and leave with off speed footage. The other way is to import everything with all the frames in tact and use the DVCPRO HD frame rate converter that’s under the Tools menu if you have installed it with FCP 5.1.x.

Jeremy

[David Jahns]

Jeremy – I understand how 720p60 Varicam works in theory. What I am saying is that the shots play back in real time – without any time compression or expansion.

A shot that lists its’ format as 720p60, and it’s “shooting rate” of 6 – that shot, when converted to a quicktime -plays 60 unique progressive frames in NORMAL time – there are no duplicated frames. If it was shot at 6 fps – the quicktime would either have 10 repeated frames if it kept the extra frames, or it would play at 10 times normal speed if it removed the extra frames, right? Neither one happens. The shot actually plays 60fps in normal time.

For example – look at my IMPORT P2 screen from here:

https://homepage.mac.com/jahns/P2_Import.png

Look at: Shot Name 000747 – 720p60 – Shooting Rate 6

here’s a low res version of the QT file: (11MB)

https://homepage.mac.com/jahns/000747.mov

as you’ll see, the action is in real-time at 60fps. Why would that have a shooting rate of 6?

[Jeremy Garchow]

Do you have your preferences to remove redundant frames? Just curious as perhaps the frames are already removed when you imported them.

Jeremy

[David Jahns]

I do have it set to remove duplicate frames – but I just noticed the stuff shot at

format 720p24 with 2:3 pulldown and some a “shooting rate” of 4

imports as 720p60 with duplicate frames in the 2:3 pattern – and real time, not time lapse or slo-mo. Weird… I would have thought that should have yielded a 24fr QT.

I’m reasonably sure that my camera op (not a pro) had no clue what he was doing – but I’m trying to figure out what he did wrong in order to tell him how to do it right.

(and I’m also trying to edit with the least amount of render time…)

[Douglas Villalba]

A 4 fps setting is not available unless you hack the camera. If your shooter did this then he provably knows more than you think. Instead of telling him what he did wrong ask him what effect he was trying to get.

Douglas Villalba

https://www.dvtvproductions.com

dvillalba@dvtvproductions.com

G5 QUAD 4.5 GB RAM, Decklink HD Extreme, HVX200, FX1