1080p 60 fps video

[John Rofrano]

You’re comparing progressive to interlaced. That has little to do with 60fps vs 30fps. I feel that 60fps is a total waste on objects that don’t require that speed. If you were recording a car race I’d agree that 60fps is best for the task, but to waste it on a tiger that’s not moving is just a waste of disk space to hold the extra frames and cpu to process them. Totally unneeded. IMHO, shooting 30p would have been a better choice if all you wanted was progressive video.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Bob Peterson]

I had forgotten that I was shooting 60p on my Canon HFG30, until yesterday when I was trying to answer another question. Interestingly, I always shoot with a second camera which is a Canon XH-A1. Both shoot in HD, but the XH-A1 shoots 60i. I was also surprised that the file sizes produced by the two cameras is not much different. Both cameras produce an AVCHD file, but with an .mts extension for the G30 and an .m2t extension for the XH. Vegas doesn’t seem to notice much difference in the video, but the video from the HFG30 definitely looks better. That is partly due to things like auto focus which includes face detection, and, I am sure, other technical improvements in the newer camera.

[John Rofrano]

[Bob Peterson] “I was also surprised that the file sizes produced by the two cameras is not much different. “

That shouldn’t be a surprise because file size is controlled by bit rate not frame rate. So whether you have 1 frame per second or 1000 frames per second, the same bit rate will yield the same file size which means that frames at 60fps have less bits to represent them than frames at 30fps at the same bit rate.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Bob Peterson]

When I said that, I was thinking of the statement that you made in this thread, which sounded quite reasonable by the way, that 60fps is a total waste of disk space when 30fps will do just as well. While I understand that bit rates can change things, perhaps you misspoke a bit about 60fps consuming a lot more space than 30fps? Perhaps it should have been qualified by; all other things remaining equal. As I thought about it, I thought perhaps the 60i for the one camera consumes just about as much space as 60p for the other camera. As it is, the Canon shows that 60fps will be recorded at 28mbps while 30fps will be recorded at 24mbps if the maximum bit rate for 30fps is used. Again, not a lot of difference. I am still struggling to deepen my understanding of this camera, and I think that is a good thing.

[John Rofrano]

[Bob Peterson] ” While I understand that bit rates can change things, perhaps you misspoke a bit about 60fps consuming a lot more space than 30fps? Perhaps it should have been qualified by; all other things remaining equal”

Yes, a qualification might have helped. 60p formats usually use a higher bit-rate to compensate for the fact that you have to store twice as many frames. If they don’t then there is no waste of disk space but there is a waste of bits because you would have had more bits to make the 30p look better at the same bit-rate. Good that you pointed that out but whether a waste of disk space by increasing the bit rate, or a waste of bits by increasing the frame rate, using 60p where it’s not needed is still a waste, IMHO.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Bob Peterson]

Actually, I am thinking that a high bit rate is available for use with the 30p to increase its quality above and beyond the 60p image. There are substantially lower bit rates available for the 30p, but there is only one bit rate for the 60p. I’m thinking of dropping my frame rate down to get the highest quality 30p image since it may exceed the quality of the 60p. So….I’m thinking that Canon is not wasting space at all. Canon may see the 60p as an action shot that, ironically, does not require as much clarity as other types of shots.

[Danny Hays]

{John Rofrono} using 60p where it’s not needed is still a waste, IMHO.

I agree with you one this. Especially when both videos had no fast moving parts. I didn’t shoot those. I downloaded them to see what they looked like and how they worked in Vegas before I bought the TM700s.
I have only had about four video cameras other than a gopro, and none had the ability to shoot 30p. All but three of my seven computers are I7s and can edit 1080 60p with ease. And as far as wasting hard drive space, I have a few USB 3 WD passports that are two terabytes and each costed under one hundred dollars. So I don’t see why HD space or cpu usage is a problem anymore. But if I want buttery smooth video, or the ability to slow it down to half speed and still see 30 fPS, 1080 60p is the way to go.
When I watch sports on a big TV, I can definetly see space between each frame, like a golf swing, gymnastics, ect. If I capture video like that at 60 fps, The difference is like night and day from 30p. Maybe it because I’m used to seeing 60p video.
Although I don’t work at Universal Orlando Resort anymore, Other than the que line video, all the video in Harry Potters Forbidin Journey, Diagon Ally Transformers and some in several other venues are 60p. Most are even 4K 60p, 3D. So you may not see a need for it but many high end video editors use it alot. Even consumer video people want it, for example the latest gopro hero4 black says it shoots at 1080p 120 fps but it’s really 720p 120 fps. Gopro forums show that feature is the reason why most people bought the camera. Maybe Gopro will get it right with a new firmware update soon. By the way, YouTube will play 1080 60p now.
I checked out your website and youTube channel. Very impressive. But at least one of your video tutorials has interlacing. The Chromakey and Matte using Boris effects tutorial shows it in the Soccer ball section and you even commented on it. Still your video tutorials are fantastic. You’re very good at describing how and why you do what your doing in them. I have watched alot of your tutorials in the past and still do, since I found your YouTube Channel. It seems we have playing music in the past in common. Check out “All I wanted was you, Love of yesterday”, both from over thirty years ago and “The Hayz” 11 years ago, on my channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ErnestDaniels/videos

[John Rofrano]

[Danny Hays] “And as far as wasting hard drive space, I have a few USB 3 WD passports that are two terabytes and each costed under one hundred dollars. So I don’t see why HD space or cpu usage is a problem anymore.”

Don’t forget the space on the camera card. I agree computer hard drive space is not an issue but if you are using a higher bit rate to record a higher frame rate you may be diminishing your recording time for no good reason.

I also read a LOT of posts where people can’t get smooth timeline playback only to find out they a using 60p to record a wedding ceremony where people are barely moving and their CPU can’t keep up with the 60fps playback. So if you are lucky enough to have a computer that gives you no problems shooting 60p I guess you can use it all the time whether you need it or not.

[Danny Hays] “When I watch sports on a big TV, I can definetly see space between each frame, like a golf swing, gymnastics, ect. If I capture video like that at 60 fps, The difference is like night and day from 30p. Maybe it because I’m used to seeing 60p video.”

Agreed. That’s a great use of 60p. I’m not saying 60p is not needed. I’m just saying it seems to be overused. Sports is a great example where it’s needed.

[Danny Hays] “I checked out your website and youTube channel. Very impressive. But at least one of your video tutorials has interlacing.”

That’s because of the incompetent job Digital Juice did on their stock footage. Someone botched it up before I bought it and there was nothing I could do about it. Horrible quality! Needless to say I don’t buy stock footage from Digital Juice anymore.

[Danny Hays] “Still your video tutorials are fantastic. You’re very good at describing how and why you do what your doing in them. I have watched alot of your tutorials in the past and still do, since I found your YouTube Channel.”

Thanks for the kind words but this is a good example. None of my tutorials require 60p! All you’re doing is watching me move a mouse around the screen. In fact, some of the earliest ones were recorded in 15p!!! I’m a big believer in using the right tool for the job and screen capture tutorials are a good example of NOT needing to be in 60p. 😉

[Danny Hays] “It seems we have playing music in the past in common. Check out “All I wanted was you, Love of yesterday”, both from over thirty years ago and “The Hayz” 11 years ago, on my channel. “

Yes, we have that in common and I’ll check them out.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Wayne Waag]

Being just a hobbyist, shooting 30P is a moot point since my camcorders only shoot 60i, 60P or 24P. Having said that, I bought into the same arguments for using 30P by the “professional” videographers I hired for my daughter’s wedding. Later, I regretted not insisting on having them film in 60P. There occurred a number of spontaneous events throughout the day that, although captured, looked pretty terrible because of the jerkiness due to the lower frame rate. At least, they didn’t film at 24P. So unless you’re filming mountains, turtles, Waiting for Godot, or something that is completely scripted, it seems better to err on the side of safety for recording those unexpected events involving high rates of motions. Plus, as the OP mentioned, you can get a nice slow-motion effect. Just a contrarian point of view.

wwaag

[Danny Hays]

[Wayne Waag] shooting 30P is a moot point since my camcorders only shoot 60i, 60P or 24P.

I don’t understand why cameras that shoot in 60p, don’t have a setting for 30p. I would shoot in that format as well sometimes but as I stated in my earlier post, none of mine shoot in 30p either. for that reason, I always shoot in 60p, and zoom out a little in case it needs stabilizing that could crop out important subjects near the edge of the shot.

At first, playing it back to the masses was a big problem, but that has changed now. As well as YouTube supporting it now, some Bluray players do too. Check out this post, and it’s even from a few years ago.

” 60p video is nice, but only that shot in 1280×720 resolution can be shared via Blu-ray at this point in time. Claims that such-and-such a machine will play 1080p discs usually mean 24p or involve some sort of typo, omission, or misconception. Most extant software to make 1080 60p video compatible with disc involves some sort of conversion. If anyone knows of a 1080p60 BD player, please indicate the make and model number. ”

You are not keeping up, as everything you said is no longer true:

1. A new firmware upgrade to all Sony Sx80 bluray players allows them to play 108060p blu ray videos. This is the new AVCHD 2.0 standard.

2. A new upgrade to Picture Motion Browser software, that comes free with all Sony cameras and camcorders, permits the writing of 108060p AVCHD 2.0-compliant blurays without conversion if the source is 108060p. These blurays play in 108060p on the above Sony bluray players, and it is said on new Panasonic bluray players.