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Video Stutter 1080p ProRes – Out of Options and Desperate
I have begun working on a pretty large project and have come across a very strange playback problem that I cannot find an answer to on the forums. We are editing in 1080p ProRes 23.98 as that is the delivery spec and when I drop in a 720p 23.98 clip (we have some footage 720p and some 1080p) and play it in the sequence, it begins to stutter during playback. This then leads to everything intermittently stuttering, whether it is rendered, 1080p, 720p, etc. Kind of seems like a memory leak or cache issue of some sort but can’t pin it down. Am I crazy to expect the MacPros to be able to upconvert 720p footage in a 1080p sequence with real-time playback or is this a hardware/software issue.
We can replicate this on two different MacPro Towers (2008 8-core 3.2GHZ and a 2009 4-core 2.66GHZ). The mystery is that we can’t get it to happen on a MacBook Pro 2009 2.8GHZ so we are using that for the time being but this isn’t a permanent solution as we need video out for client, etc, with the KONA LHI. We stripped the MacPros down to just bare components and the only thing we’ve come up with is a bad graphics card. It seems unlikely as we have tried three different cards (2 Nvidia GT 120’s and 1 Nvidia 8800) but we are out of ideas. I am just curious if anyone else has had this issue. I know you have to render out the 720p to play out FULL in a 1080p sequence but the real-time playback is fine on the MacBook Pro. Below are the project specs and a brief recap of what we’ve tried:
– Mac OS 10.6.4 and 10.6.5 (on the second MacPro)
– Final Cut 7.0.3
– Sequence settings: 1920×1080 ProRes 23.98 square pixels
– Footage – Transcoded ProRes 1080p or 720p 23.98 from either Varicam or Canon 5D/7D
– Changed RAM and tried different configurations
– Consolidated the project file to make it smaller
– Replaced the Quicktime Desktop Playback Component to the original Final Cut Pro 7 install disc version as suggested on the forums
– Did a fresh install of OS and Final Cut about a month before we started this project and we’re doing it again as I right this
– Removed all added components from towers (KONA cards) and deleted KONA drivers
– Started a fresh project and added in a few files to test and it still would end up stuttering with the 720p stuff
– We tried the project and some test footage on the internal drives, external drives and our RAID with the same issue so we’ve narrowed it down to a Final Cut issue.We feel we are down to 2 options:
1) Up-convert all the 720p footage to 1080p (we have 2TBs of footage so quite a large task and with deadlines approaching not sure we have time to pull this off)
2) Buy a brand new 12-core Mac Pro and an ATI 5870 card.Any help would be greatly appreciated!
tony
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14 Replies
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Has all of the footage been transcoded to ProRes before you edited? The DSLR footage especially needs to have had this done. I’d transcode it all to ProRes first. Mixing formats “works” sort of, but sure is nicer working in FCP 7 when it’s all singing the same tune and no transcoding nor frame size/rate conversion has to be done in the sequence.
Jerry
Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: https://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann
Current DVD:
https://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17″ MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX – Cinema Displays I have a 22″ that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.
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Yes but good question. All footage was transcoded to ProRes before any editing was started and the files that needed it were conformed to 23.98 so that there was only one frame rate to deal with.
tony
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I don’t have concrete solution to this, but why don’t you just try converting a couple of GBs of footage to 1080p and see if you still get the judder? I haven’t ever had this issue despite working with different frame rates together on an everyday basis. Is the 720 footage from the Canon or Varicam?
I would also try exporting some of the “stutter” footage and see if you still have the same problem with the exported clip.
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The 720p footage is both Varicam and Canon 7D that was shot at 59.94 and then conformed to 23.98 with cinema tools. We have done a bunch of exports and they all play fine outside of Final Cut in the finder or Quicktime but will start stuttering in Final Cut once the first stutter happens with the 720p footage. Also, all the 720p footage plays outside Final Cut just fine so the culprit seems to be Final Cut.
We have done some tests with converting the 720p to 1080p and it seems to work. Just a minimum of three days to convert everything and we’re trying to avoid that as it will push us past our deadlines but might need to go that route. We are doing a fresh install of the OS now and installing a new Nvidia 4800 graphics card since that is the last one we haven’t tried.
tony
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What storage do you use?
I don’t see anything about storage in your post.
Do you use a dedicated RAID System ?
Do a AJA speedtest on the drive you are editing from.
It seems your storage it too slow to playback 1080p ProRes -
We are using a Promise RAID with Final Share but the problem occurs using the internal drives, firewire drives, or the raid.
:: Update and possible solution ::
I got an email from another colleague that said he had issues with a Nvidia driver at some point. It got me thinking about what graphic cards have been installed in our two MacPros and I found a common variable that I missed. Right now we have a GT 120 in one and the 8800 in another. But they both had used the same Nvidia 8800 card at some point (we upgraded one and switched it to another with a clean install) so those drivers were on the both towers. Tonight, we reformatted the 2008 MacPro and installed a brand new Nvidia 4800 that we recently purchased but have been waiting to install because of these issues. As of this moment we have not been able to replicate the problem so it could be that 8800 driver. Tomorrow’s deadlines will be the true test.
tony
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…it begins to stutter during playback.
1) How many streams of ProRes are you trying to play back at once?
2) If you turn on the dropped frame warning in the User Preferences, does it give a warning of dropped frames?
3) Is it just a visual thing while you are working in FCP, or is it a stutter in rendered/exported files?
4) Does the stutter occur in the same place every time?
5) Do you play back video clips that match the sequence settings? What happens if you create a (non-matching) sequence, drop one of the clips into this sequence, then say yes to the dialog box that asks you if you want to make the sequence match this clip. When you play this sequence, does it stutter? (From your description, you are trying to play back 720p material in a 1080p timeline which is stuttering.)
6) How long are the clips that you are working with? How many timeline tabs do you have open at once?
7) Does it stutter if you are playing back a clip in the Viewer, instead of the Canvas/Timeline?
8) Is your Canvas window showing a scrollable part of the video you are trying to watch? FCP used to have (and probably still does have) problems in playing back part of a video – you need to set the Viewer and Canvas to ‘Fit to Window’ (Shift-z) to avoid this playback problem.
9) Does the problem still occur if you work in a 720p sequence with a mix of 1080p and 720p clips?Bill Lee
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I believe problem was with the Nvidia 8800 graphics card and driver with the ProRes 1080p material. We are doing more tests this week to confirm it but after the clean install and the new Quadro FX 4800 installed, all seems well.
1) Just one stream, no effects
2) Yes
3) Visual thing
4) No
5) Playing natively works fine. Only stuttering with 720p clips in a 1080p timeline.
6) The clips average about 5mins a piece but I did not some very long sequences (1-5 hours long). I have heard that long sequences might be a problem with our Final Share Ethernet Raid so I deleted all the long sequences. Was still having the problem after that but could be I still have a few long sequences in there that I missed. Checking that this morning.
7) Plays in viewer fine.
8) Canvas and Viewer are Fit To Window and not overlapping any windows
9) No, which has lead me to believe it’s a 1080p issuetony
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[Tony Silanskas] “9) No, which has lead me to believe it’s a 1080p issue”
first off what are you monitoring your signal on?
I believe that the issue is because the format is actually PSF- most people cannot watch true P footage and the default for all 1080 Broadcast is Segmented frame and you are looking at footage that is juddering or looks “staccato” on playback.
maybe try that PSF version
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILhttps://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
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The Kona is set to output 1080psf 23.98 but the stuttering happens in the Final Cut Canvas on a system without the KONA installed as we have been trying to get rid of all possible variables. I noticed today that having the Overlays on in the Canvas or Image+Wireframe selected makes it stutter whether it is 1080p footage or 720p. I know this issue has been around for eons so maybe that is part of the problem.
tony
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