-
Avid or FCP? Adobe has dropped the ball.
Okay, so I really want to get the Panasonic HVX-200, and (as a long-time Premiere Pro user) it steams me that I can’t use the files without going through a whole lot of a)add-on cards, b)add-on software, and/or c) workarounds that defeat the purpose of having the convenient P2 format in the first place.
I’m thinking that if I’m forced at gunpoint to spend money, I’m steamed enough to just go all out, trash my current workflow and software and switch to something else. I’m sorry Adobe. I’ve been using your products since the early 90’s (and I’ll still probably use Illustrator and Photoshop) but you’re really dropping the ball on this one.
So any thoughts from out there? FCP will require getting new hardware, but can the MacBook Pros handle DVCPro HD? Should I wait for the Intel desktops? The Macs are frustrating because I’m told that I’ll have to buy two copies of FCP — one for the laptop in the field and one for the desktop, because there are no floating licences.
What about Avid? I’ve heard negative rumblings, but at least I could keep my current hardware.
-
37 Replies
-
FCP needs no further hardware to deal with the P2 cards, unless you have a powerbook with a PCMCIA slot. That reads the cards right off the bat. If you don’t have that, then FCP, like any other NLE, will require a card reader or P2 Store to get the information from the card. Well, not really…you can dump from the camera directly to a hard drive, or connect it to yoru computer, but then you lose the use of the camera for the time it takes to transfer.
The Macbook Pro will handle DVCPRO HD just fine. It is the hard drives that will be the issue, as the only firewire drives that will work with DVCPRO HD are FW800 drives (like the G-Raid), and the 15″ MBP lacks a FW800 port. And there currently is no PCIe32 card adapter for that yet. Yet. The MBP 17″ has FW800, so it is good to go.
And the current license agreement with 5.1 is that you can have one copy on your tower AND your laptop as long as they aren’t both running at the same time. That is sweet.
Shane
Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net -
[Shane Ross] “The Macbook Pro will handle DVCPRO HD just fine. It is the hard drives that will be the issue, as the only firewire drives that will work with DVCPRO HD are FW800 drives (like the G-Raid), and the 15″ MBP lacks a FW800 port.”
Shane, where did you get that idea? On the current Macs, the 800 ports aren’t any faster than the 400 ports. Sad, but true. Perhaps that will change in the new Intel towers?
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
-
[Mitch Ives] “On the current Macs, the 800 ports aren’t any faster than the 400 ports. Sad, but true.”
What’s you talkin’ ’bout Willis?
You mean to say that on the current MBP 17″, the FW800 port is no faster than the 400? Or are you saying that across the board they aren’t? Like my on my Dual 2GB G5? If so…show me proof of that, because I am using them and they are working great…not one dropped frame. But if I put the footage on a FW400 drive, it chokes.
Or are you talking about if you have FW800 drives attached to a computer, then attach a FW400 drive that slows the whole bus to FW400 speeds? If so, that is solved by installed a PCI FW card ($30) and not using the built in FW400 ports…which I have done.
Shane
Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net -
My direct experience is the same as Shane’s- the 800 ports are way faster than the 400 ones on both G5 desktops and on Powerbooks. MacBooks just came out with FW800 on 17″ so I haven’t had as much experience but so far they seem up to par with the rest of the line.
Noah
-
[Shane Ross] “You mean to say that on the current MBP 17″, the FW800 port is no faster than the 400? Or are you saying that across the board they aren’t? Like my on my Dual 2GB G5? If so…show me proof of that, because I am using them and they are working great…not one dropped frame. But if I put the footage on a FW400 drive, it chokes.”
Trust me Shane, this is the worst kept secret in the Universe among those of us with the inside track. Get some testing software and test the speed of a drive hooked to the FW800 port. Then hook the SAME drive to a 400 port, and surprise… same throughput. Now, in all fairness, I haven’t yet tried this on the new MBpro, but it’s true on every other PB and the G5 towers.
If you’re seeing a difference, then there is a difference in your two drives, bridge chips in the case, etc.
[Shane Ross] “Or are you talking about if you have FW800 drives attached to a computer, then attach a FW400 drive that slows the whole bus to FW400 speeds? If so, that is solved by installed a PCI FW card ($30) and not using the built in FW400 ports…which I have done.”
Well, you won’t like this either. Even though there is a bridge, there is only one FW controller chip on the MB, so 400 drives and 800 ports are essentially on the same bus…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
-
[Noah Kadner] “My direct experience is the same as Shane’s- the 800 ports are way faster than the 400 ones on both G5 desktops and on Powerbooks. MacBooks just came out with FW800 on 17” so I haven’t had as much experience but so far they seem up to par with the rest of the line. “
I don’t know how to tell you guys this, but Barefeats, and several places have pointed this out. Apple has had discussions on their board about this. It’s been acknowledged by Apple. It’s a limitation of some kind in the G5’s. I’ve run tests and seen the same throughput out of both ports on our G5’s. I don’t have all the details anymore, since this isn’t “new” news… it’s common knowledge.
On my PB G4 I’ve seen a minor difference (10-15%), but nothing near the doubling that their should be.
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
-
Hate to jump in here, but I’ve captured 720/24p from the Panasonic directly to the internal drive of a G4 PB without DF.
And Mitch, I’ve read Rob Morgans reports at barefeats.com as to how the G5 PCI slots do not handled firewire RAIDs very well.
Actually slower than the G4 desktops.
I’ve never seen a report by Rob Morgan that FW800 runs at FW400 speeds.
If anybody wants me to, I can run the AJA KONA System Test to confirm this with FW400 port and the FW800 port.
-
[Mitch Ives] “[Shane Ross] “Or are you talking about if you have FW800 drives attached to a computer, then attach a FW400 drive that slows the whole bus to FW400 speeds? If so, that is solved by installed a PCI FW card ($30) and not using the built in FW400 ports…which I have done.”
Well, you won’t like this either. Even though there is a bridge, there is only one FW controller chip on the MB, so 400 drives and 800 ports are essentially on the same bus…”
However Mitch, a Firewire PCI card creates a second bus that uses the PCI slot.
It doesn’t have anything to due with the motherboard firewire controller in that configuration.
-
[Mitch Ives] “Well, you won’t like this either. Even though there is a bridge, there is only one FW controller chip on the MB, so 400 drives and 800 ports are essentially on the same bus..”
I’m not talking about a MBP….I am talking about my G5 Tower.
And this information preplexes me. Because I have been able to capture and edit 8-bit uncompressed, and even 10-bit uncompressed on my G-Raids…something I couldn’t even DREAM of doing on my EZQuest FW400 drives. How am I able to pull this off if the throughput is the same?
What tool do you use to measure this? I wanna do some tests on my own.
Shane
Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net -
[Mitch Ives] “so 400 drives and 800 ports are essentially on the same bus…”
I don’t think this is a secret, Mitch. This has been known for some time. It is for this reason that you can’t have an aja io and a firewire 800 drive on the onboard fw controllers, there’s not enough bandwidth as the bus is shared and that’s no secret. FW800 does run faster (I’m not sure about double fw400, but fast enough for 8 Bit UC SD, and definitely fast enough for DVCPRO HD). You can’t have any other fw device connected to the onboard fw ports on the mac at the same time, but FW800 does run faster.
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up