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Avid or FCP? Adobe has dropped the ball.
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This is the barefeats test page for FW800:
https://www.barefeats.com/fire35.html
Not double, but DEFINATELY faster.
Shane
Alokut Productions
http://www.lfhd.net -
[david Saraceno] “Hate to jump in here, but I’ve captured 720/24p from the Panasonic directly to the internal drive of a G4 PB without DF.”
That’s interesting. I’d like to see a capture of footage comprised of numbered frames. People are often dropping frames without knowing it. Can you play it back from there?
[david Saraceno] “And Mitch, I’ve read Rob Morgans reports at barefeats.com as to how the G5 PCI slots do not handled firewire RAIDs very well.
Actually slower than the G4 desktops.
I’ve never seen a report by Rob Morgan that FW800 runs at FW400 speeds.”
That’s one of the places I saw it, but it may have been a private discussion with Rob, since I email him to compare our individual tests off the forum…
[david Saraceno] “If anybody wants me to, I can run the AJA KONA System Test to confirm this with FW400 port and the FW800 port.”
It’s one of the utilites we used to research the issue…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
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[david Saraceno] “However Mitch, a Firewire PCI card creates a second bus that uses the PCI slot.
It doesn’t have anything to due with the motherboard firewire controller in that configuration.”
Yes, I think most people know that…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
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[Shane Ross] “I’m not talking about a MBP….I am talking about my G5 Tower.”
Neither was I… the dual G5 towers are where we first discovered the issue…
[Shane Ross] “And this information preplexes me. Because I have been able to capture and edit 8-bit uncompressed, and even 10-bit uncompressed on my G-Raids…something I couldn’t even DREAM of doing on my EZQuest FW400 drives. How am I able to pull this off if the throughput is the same?”
Why? The G-raid is a dual drive enclosure. In addition, it uses a controller to read the inner platters of one drive and the outer platter of the other, to achieve a consistent throughput regardless of where on the drive it’s reading. Your EZQuest is a single drive enclosure is it not?
[Shane Ross] “What tool do you use to measure this? I wanna do some tests on my own.”
Two or three different ones… but the AJA utility (which is free) seems to be fairly useful. Rob at Barefeats has something that he likes even better. You might want to check there…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
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[JeremyG] “[Mitch Ives] “so 400 drives and 800 ports are essentially on the same bus…”
I don’t think this is a secret, Mitch. This has been known for some time. It is for this reason that you can’t have an aja io and a firewire 800 drive on the onboard fw controllers, there’s not enough bandwidth as the bus is shared and that’s no secret. FW800 does run faster (I’m not sure about double fw400, but fast enough for 8 Bit UC SD, and definitely fast enough for DVCPRO HD). You can’t have any other fw device connected to the onboard fw ports on the mac at the same time, but FW800 does run faster.”
I don’t think I implied that that part was a secret.
FWIW, you can have an 800 drive in use with an Io. You can’t use it as a media drive, but as a startup drive. We had one of the first Io’s and used an external FW800 as a startup drive and had four SATA drives internally as a RAID and did uncompressed 10 bit for 1-1/2 years.
A single drive is minimal for 8 bit, and unacceptable for 10 bit. Yes, it can work with DVCPro HD IF you’re doing simple things. We tend to do more complicated timelines. We still find that a four drive SATA array will occassionally still have trouble with complicated DVCPro HD timelines. I guess it all depends on what you’re doing?
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
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[Shane Ross] “This is the barefeats test page for FW800:
https://www.barefeats.com/fire35.html
Not double, but DEFINATELY faster.”
This was done a dual G4 (1.42), not a G5… the G5 has issues as I mentioned earlier
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5
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Yes, the FW800 bus is not that much faster than the FW400 on both the G4 PB and the G5 desktops, but it still is. OTOH, even the FW400 bus is not used to it’s limit with a single drive, only a small RAID can really make full use of it.
And, to get back to the initial question, Scott should be fine using DVCPro HD on an Apple laptop with a small RAID, even with FW400. An interesting option for better throughput on the new MacBook Pro (even the 15″ model) will be that card for the new card slot introduced at NAB to attach S-ATA drives. It should be way fast enough for DVCPro HD, since there’s no load on the FW bus other than the playback device.
Hope this helps,
Uli
Author of “DVDs gestalten und produzieren”, a book on professional DVD-authoring in German.
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Licensing is the same over here in Europe: you can have two copies sitting on the laptop and the desktop, as long as they are not running at the same time.
And, even if I’m a convert who switched from Premiere to Final Cut Pro (without ever regretting), with Raylight you can work pretty smooth on a PC with Premiere Pro.
Regards,
Uli
Author of “DVDs gestalten und produzieren”, a book on professional DVD-authoring in German.
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[Mitch Ives] “Trust me Shane, this is the worst kept secret in the Universe among those of us with the inside track. Get some testing software and test the speed of a drive hooked to the FW800 port. “
Sorry Mitch,
I am with Shane this is not the case with the Intel laptops,
With the G4 book using the 400 & 800 FW buses at the same time only gave FW 400 speeds.gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL
gary@studio37.com -
[Mitch Ives] “[david Saraceno] “However Mitch, a Firewire PCI card creates a second bus that uses the PCI slot.
It doesn’t have anything to due with the motherboard firewire controller in that configuration.”
Yes, I think most people know that…”
Yes, they do Mitch.
But you seemed to have ignore it in the response to Shane when you stated:
“[Shane Ross] “Or are you talking about if you have FW800 drives attached to a computer, then attach a FW400 drive that slows the whole bus to FW400 speeds? If so, that is solved by installed a PCI FW card ($30) and not using the built in FW400 ports…which I have done.”
Well, you won’t like this either. Even though there is a bridge, there is only one FW controller chip on the MB, so 400 drives and 800 ports are essentially on the same bus…”
He clearly indicated that a PCI FW card would create a second bus, and you discounted that by discussing the single FW controller chip on the motherboard.
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