Ty Ford
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Ryan, how old are you?
Did you miss the short existence of quadrophonic sound that peaked in the early 1970s?
Quadrophonic vinyl was produced. No one cold figure out how to standardize it. A different instrument on each channel? I had the idea of auto-panning instruments around in a circle like a carousel that would either move smoothly and continuously around your head, or that would move in tempo with the music.
In the end, most people settled for a stereo front and delayed stereo rear as you might hear in a live venue. Sometimes the rears would be reversed and out of phase with the front to achieve a groovy “surround effect.”
Regards,
Ty Ford
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“Since right and left direction is not really necessary for music, why not just have all music still be in mono?”
Because you have two ears., stereo is necessary.
Because stereo allows a soundstage from left to right on which you can place a number of instruments so that they don’t compete with each other.
How do you listen to music now?
Ty Ford
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The only reason to place mics all over is because you don’t know where to place them specifically.
Music and dialog are very different.
With dialog, the challenge is usually to record as directly as possible.
Regards,
Ty Ford
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Hello Rob and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum,
Go here: https://en-us.sennheiser.com/service-support-contact-center
Regards,
Ty Ford
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Hello Ryan,
I don’t know who you’re talking to, but they are pulling your leg.
I was told by a couple of others in the audio business that instead of using one boom mic to record all of the dialogue that I should have multiple mics around the scene, to create a surround sound mix, live while shooting, cause it’s better to spend the extra money on mics to do it while shooting then to create surround sound in post, which won’t sound as natural.
— For the most part surround is created in post.
They also say that if I want to record sound effects, such as a car driving by for example, that I should record it with multiple mics to get different parts of the car simultaneously, rather than trying to record all the parts separately, cause it won’t match if I do that they said, cause the car will be driving by with different sounds, if I try to record all the different sounds, one at a time, on different takes.
— Well that sounds like a lot of work and mics. Sound Design is the art/craft that combines different sounds to make a final effect.
But they also say I should record 4-6 tracks with all the mics placed in the room in a surround sound capturing fashion.
— You’ve got a car crash in a room?
If an actor walks from left to write while talking to the other actors in a scene, than the mics should be placed left to right, so he can walk past each mic and it will give a left to right surround sound mix in production, so I don’t have to do that in post for example.
— Nope, you want to do it with a pan pot, not multiple mics.
They also said I should of course have a boom on the actor that is moving with the actor the whole time, as back up, but I should do the left to right mic placement.
— No, that would be your primary mic. A wireless would be your backup.
Or if an actor is talking while sitting on the floor and then getting up, while talking, I shouldn’t just boom along with the actor, I should have mics placed going from the floor, to the ceiling to capture the surround, as he goes from floor to ceiling, they said.
— pulling your leg in an effort to explain “plant mics.” Very funny.
Things like that. What do you think, do you think it’s worth it, to mic a whole scene for surround sound, during shooting, in order to save time doing it in post? And does doing it during shooting sound more natural, than trying synthesize reverb and sound direction in post, by comparison?
When “natural” sucks, you don’t want it. Get new friends.
Regards,
Ty Ford
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Joseph,
All materials were purchased from B&H. I have an arrangement with B&H, plus they offer good prices and quick delivery. Here are my notes.
1. & 2. The Auralex ProPanel Acoustical Panels are the large panels for the lower four feet of the room.
They make them as large as 2” x 4’ x 8’. Two of those would cover the long wall, or we could use three 2” x 4’ x 4’ to have some symmetry with the opposing wall.
Three 2” x 4’ x 4’ would cover the wall with the door. (I need to check to make sure they make 2” x 4’ x 4’, but it seems they do.)
One 2” x 2’ x 4’ panel would cover the lower part of the 35” wide door, without any fancy cutting.
These panels would be attached to the walls using Auralex Impaling Clips.
Stacked above the ProPanels will be the Auralex Studio Foam Wedge panels are 4” x 2’ x 4’. The 4” thickness give a good .80 NRC rating. That’s what I’m using in my studio. We’ll need 8 for the long wall and 6 for the shorter wall with the door.
For the remaining wall space above 8’, I think we can get by with 1” or 2” x 2’ x 4’ foam panels glued to the walls. We could probably glue panels to the ceiling, but please ask your facility crew how they would like to attach these panels to the ceiling.
The movable gobos we spoke about are available as Auralex ProMAX V2 Acoustic Panels with Floor Stands. They are 4” x 2’ x 4’. I would feel more comfortable with two of these on each side. We could order four additional white 2’ x 4’ foam panels to achieve your light bounce effect and attach these panels to one side of each of the panels
All panels will be ordered in BLACK or the darkest gray possible.
Auralex makes a variety of adhesive solutions for the foam panels. I suggest asking your facility crew what they think would work best for wall mounting and for ceiling mounting. Please also ask them to check any of these materials out for any code problems before we order. Their experience here is invaluable.
Please include three 2” x 4’ x 4’ hard panels to cover the lower part of the wall opposite the green screen and nine 4” x 2’ x 4’ panels to a height of 10’.
3. Yes a curtain and track will work. Another fix is to use silks hung from the ceiling to diffuse light from large fixtures on ceiling grids. The silks take more sting off the audio because the sound has to pass through them twice; once on the way to the ceiling and once on the way back to an open mic.
If transparency is not needed, suspended sheets of muslin cloth does an even better job of damping the sound. You can get it in black, white, grey, green, etc. I use a green muslin backdrop in my own little studio and find that I can key pretty well with FCP X as long as I don’t throw shadows on the fabric. I use 4′ long LED lighting fixtures hung vertically on regular old lighting stands. I position one on each side of the room behind the talent and spill the light as evenly as I can on the green screen. Those 4′ long LEDs throw a very even light on the green muslin.
Below is a sample from my place using the LED lights and green muslin curtain. It has wrinkles that I have never ironed out and don’t seem to be a problem. The mic was a Schoeps CMC641 on a boom, just out of frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEQ1USzZjUU
Oh, and BTW, it’s DAMPING, not DAMPENING, unless you ‘re gonna get something wet.
Regards,
Ty Ford
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Hello Joseph and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.
As it turns out, I did a job last year here in Baltimore at the Exelon HQ that sounds right up your alley.
Too large to upload here. So here it is on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWkG6VVfDJA
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum LeaderWant better production audio?: Ty Ford\’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
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(954) 415-8806
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David,
The mic might have been somewhat damaged before. More care in how you route the cable will probably be fine, but it’s never a bad idea to have a backup. The problem is always how much gear to schlep.
Regards,
Ty Ford
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“got cut” ???
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