[Tony West]

I don’t do much keyframing in X myself. Like Bret said, if I’m going to build anything that needs detailed key framing I do it in Motion.

I also tend to start whatever I’m trying to build in Motion to begin with, then I bring that into X

While send to Motion would be cool to have back, since I like to start in Motion anyway it’s not as big a deal for me. I organize my Motion files in a folder that I make it’s own Event so I can get to them fast in a project.

I was building a nuclear chain reaction the other day. I just wouldn’t want to start anything like this in any NLE

[Tony West]

[John Davidson] “Wait wait wait. Did you just indirectly accuse Reading Rainbow, owned by Lavar Burton, actor from “Roots” of being the equivalent of a slave owner?”

Roots, hummmmm

Some folks might need a refresher course on that old classic series.

Yas’em

[Tony West]

[Bret Williams] “Why should any of these be the responsibility of the employer?”

Because they are bringing in Billions and I’m just a working class guy. If you want to take that responsibility go ahead and take it. I just don’t want you deciding for me that I have to take it.

[Bret Williams] “But the ONLY reason that the govt wants them withheld is so they can ensure they get them. But I’m just not a fan of the nanny state. “

Now we are getting to the real deal.

OK, as my dad always says “Do the math” So let’s do it.

My aunt was in a retirement home here in St. Louis. Not the best one and not the worst one. They were charging $6,000.00 a month. A month! That’s $72,000.00 a year. My aunt was a nun for a good part of her life and then a school teacher. Do you think she was paying $72,000.00 a year in taxes as a school teacher in the 1950s? Of course not. She probably only got paid $8,000.00 a year.

She, like most Americans (that live a long life) got back way more than she ever put in.

I didn’t even add in medical bills and medicine.

You are looking in the wrong direction with the “nanny state” who you SHOULD be looking at are these knuckle heads that are overcharging our elderly.

Young people don’t pay attention to these kind of issues because they are not in a home or don’t have parents old enough to be in one yet.

I’m sure you don’t pay anywhere near 6k on your home right now and you are in the prime of your earning.

By the time you are 75 and on a fixed income, you are going to end up in a dinky room with a roommate
just like my aunt, paying way more than 6k by that point, and it won’t be the government that put you there. It’s a scary thought right? Nobody wants to think about it. Folks better wake up.

[Bret Williams] “Let someone do my job for less. Hey if they can afford it, and the company is happy with it, that’s what it should pay.”

So you are for a race to the bottom. I’m not.

I want the working class to make as much as they can so they can spend it back into the economy and we all do well. Not just some at the top.

I’m sure there are people that would work the World Series for free just to be there. I’m glad your view is a minority one so I can earn a living : )

[Bret Williams] “You have something of value to them and the two of you should mutually determine a price. “

I agree, and that’s what we do. All the union does is put that agreement into writing. A contract.
Same as you, I just have it in writing.

[Bret Williams] “Nobody owes me anything.”

It’s a nice line, but I’m sure slaves back on the plantations didn’t have the luxury of using it.

[Tony West]

[Andrew Kimery] “[tony west] “Tony the independent contractor”

That actually has a nice ring to it, too bad you don’t do more IC work. 😉

You still headed west for some Dodgers action this summer?”

hehehe

Yes I am. Looking forward to it. We get in on the 5th of June. It will be the first time my cousins have been to California so I’m sure they are gonna want to do all that touristy stuff ; P

Disneyland, beach and such. We are going to the Sunday game which I’m pretty sure is going to be taken by ESPN Sunday Night Baseball.

If I don’t get a chance to catch up to you this trip, I will be coming back out there by myself soon.

[Tony West]

[Jeremy Garchow] “I don’t know anyone in our freelance pool that uses W2, they are all 99, and usually are all incorporated.”

I hear you. Most contractors I’m sure do it just like you and Bret.

I do it that way also when I have to, but when I can get around it I do. I sometimes do spots for FOX SPORTS and they allow me to bill them as an employee and take the W2.

That also lets me avoid state unemployment insurance since in that case, I’m not the employer.
Some states do that differently so it just depends. That’s another thing I don’t want to pay : )
It may not be that much money but it’s money and it adds up over time.

A lot of it IMHO is about shifting responsibility to the contractor. Especially when it comes to liability.

So if I’m in the Hall Of Fame Museum and a light falls over and damages something, FOX is not going to say, hey, Tony the independent contractor did that. He will write you a check.

I had one client take it to the next level one time and wanted me to actually sign a contract that said I was on the hook for anything.

I will often rig television cameras high over crowds in stadiums and if one was to come down and hurt somebody they wanted to run. I told them no way in h- I was going to sign that.
I’m using your support gear in order to put it up there for YOU. If your gear ends up being defective why should I be on the hook? They agreed with me and took the responsibility. I was the only person I think that challenged it.

In my experience employers for the most part are not looking out for me and my ss. They care about their own bottom line so I make sure I pay attention to every time for my future. Who else will? : )

[Tony West]

[Jeremy Garchow] “It sounds like there’s some security with the union.”

There is, but what you really have is a fair wage. The union establishes a floor that people can’t go under.

You can get paid more than the wage (and we are all for that) but you can’t go under it.

Somebody can’t come in and say, I will do that job that Jeremy did for 5 bucks. We don’t have folks undercutting the rate here so everybody gets paid big. Everyone knows when they come into this town what the deal is.

[Jeremy Garchow] “I guess I’d rather get the money that my clients agree to rather than have them take taxes out. “

I get the money they agree to also in the contract, and I don’t have to worry about the taxes.

You can see my response above J, but we have to compare apples to apples. If you do one job for somebody for 1500.00 and you want to take a 99 that’s one thing, but would you really let somebody slide you a 99 on 30k worth of work? You are going to get killed in taxes like that.

I do most of my work for Networks. I want W2s from them. It’s different if I do a small job for a single producer.

The math has to be done on each case. After rereading your post Jeremy it sounds like you have done the math and it’s working for you. I’m glad it is working out for you both.

This is working out much better for me these days than before. I’m not having to come up with thousands of dollars each quarter and assuming responsibilities that belong to the employer.

[Tony West]

[Bret Williams] “Just wanted to make sure you knew that every time you see 7.5% taken out for FICA/Social Security that is your half. The employer pays the government the other half. It equals the exact same amount as social security/self employment tax.”

I believe I understand it pretty well Bret, when they give you a 99 they are paying zero into your social security. YOU pay their half AND your half in that case. You are paying more in taxes that way.

In a W2 they ARE paying their half like you said. You seem to be saying that in a 99 they are paying your SS. Are you saying that? Why would they do that? You are not an employee You are “self”-employed at that point.

With a 99 they are saying that you are not an employee. They don’t owe you anything. No workman’s comp, no SS, nothing.

And if you drop something on somebody’s head, they can say “see Bret on that”

That’s why I carry liability insurance for the few 99 jobs I have.

It’s like if you hired somebody to build a deck on the back of your house. You wouldn’t pay that person’s SS, they are a contractor for that one job.

A 99 is OK if you work for a person once or twice a year, but when I was traveling across the country making ten’s of thousands of dollars for ESPN I was not a deck builder. I was an employee and should have been paid like one. They just didn’t want to pay people like that. It saved them cash. It’s illegal and came to an end now but they got away with it for years.

[Tony West]

Yes, we have the red-hot Cardinals going against Jeff’s Cubbies : ) They got us tonight.

[Bret Williams] “But comparing what one company will pay vs. what another will pay just determined that FOX paid better than ESPN.”

Actually they didn’t and still don’t. The day rate for ESPN was slightly higher than Fox back then, but the take home was less. (self-employment tax) Meaning at the end of the day you made less money.
It was like 5% vs 13% I think. Now, that 8% goes in my pocket.

NBC and CBS both are W2 so I will work for them also.

I do have some 99’s enough for me to deduct my camera gear and stuff just like you. I just make sure that the bulk of my network gigs are W2

I get money back instead of paying quarters.

It’s cool though, if those 99’s are working for you have at it.
I just wanted to get my information out there to people who may not be so familiar with the topic.

I am an officer in my union also and it comes up all the time with new members.

[Tony West]

[Jeremy Garchow] “But where do you get your insurance and any disability? Would it be from whoever is paying you for that job, should something happen?”

I bought my health insurance myself privately for most of my career. When the affordable care act came in I got into that. Fox offers a plan but it wasn’t as good as what I had.

We had a guy get hurt on the job a few years back and Fox kicked in.

We have a big Union town here in St. Louis and have great contracts. I got rid of disability insurance a while back.

Our union also pays for part of our hospital stay depending on how long you are in there.

We also have a pension plan that is like 40 bucks an events. That really adds up when you consider how many baseball games and hockey games and basket ball there are. Even commercial work.

The problem with that add was the part that said it was “non-union” : )

[Tony West]

[Bret Williams] “All I’m saying, is when an employer offers you a job at a certain salary, the hidden 7% that they have to put in is part of their determination”

I have to go work baseball so it may be a bit for me to fully get back

but

ESPN would call themselves paying you a “higher” day rate for events like say NFL

what I’m saying is I did the math. By the time I got done paying all the taxes that THEY didn’t pay I had more take home money working for FOX

I would tell other freelancers but they never actually did the math. I’m giving a real world example that I lived. Not something I’m guessing at for a discussion.

Most people assumed they would make more with the “higher rate” but I don’t like to assume.

I like to do math when it comes to my money.