[Ted Coakley]

Hi Gleb, your Adjustment Layer link doesn’t go to any working video or page.

[Ted Coakley]

Sorry, Michael, I don’t understand this.

You said, “The problem was the incorrect frame rate metadata causing FCP to think the audio was not 48khz @ 29.97, even though it was.”
* Do you mean that my FCP7 Viewer could only playback my 29.975 metadata Clip as a 29.970 Clip, and thus the A/V drift?
* And do you mean that my FCP7 Viewer could not see my 48khz clip as 48khz for some reason, and thus the A/V drift?

You also said, “In this case the audio sample rate was absolutely correct but the frame rate had been stamped as 29.975. All FCP could do was to drift the audio.”
* Do you mean that my video Clip’s ACTUAL fps is 29.970, and its ACTUAL audio is 48khz, but because the Clip’s metadata was stamped 29.975, that that causes FCP7 to think, “Oh, since this Clip is 29.975, it must NOT be 48khz, so I’ll play it back at a different khz.”?
* If so, then at what khz DID my FCP7 choose to playback my 48khz ?
* If not, then what did you mean?

You also, that FCP would “…… varispeed them to correct their frame rate against the sequence frame rate”, but keep in mind, this is an issue in FCP7’s VIEWER – NOT anything related to FCP7’s Sequence, Sequence frame rate, or any other Sequence settings.
* With that in mind, that there’s no sequence frame rate against which FCP7 would varispeed, what’s your thoughts on the matter?

I’m just trying to get everything totally dialed, understood and setup right, before I dive into a couple hundred hours of archival miniDV transfers (and before I get more of those tapes transferred).
Thanks!

[Ted Coakley]

Thanks for the math, Michael.
Yep, I see that .999 x 24 = 23.976, and .999 x 20 =29.970.
So, I get it (with the new knowledge that 0.1% was the intended/desired frame rate shift).

I also get it when you say that AE allows 23.976 setting (and I’ve mentioned that Premiere does, as well), unlike other NLE/VFXs, but, also as I’ve mentioned, my initially problematic-for-FCP7-Viewer 29.975 .MOV file, was from a FCP 7 Import to an FCP 7 export.

Hopefully, this clarification may be helpful to anyone that reads this, who might have some insight or explanation.

However, this leaves us (or at least me) wondering a) how the FCP7 export made a 29.975 file, and b) why some people think 29.97 is actually 29.976 or 29.975.

[Ted Coakley]

Alright, Nick, here’s what I did, thinking this is following your suggestion.

1. Imported file that no longer plays in Finder/QuickLook, but plays well in everything else, into FCP 7 Browser.
2. Opened file in FCP7 Viewer
3. File > Export > Quick Time Movie
4. Settings: Current Settings
Include: Audio and Video
Markers: None
Recompress All Frames: DEselected/UNchecked
Make Movie Self-Contained: Selected/Checked

After about 5 minutes, there is a new .MOV file, same image size and Duration as the original.
The new file is 29.284GB, vs 29.277GB original file (so, pretty close).
And the new file also does not play in the finder/QuickLook, just like the original does not.

[Ted Coakley]

Thanks, Nick, but I’m not thinking of the “real” frame rate of 23.976 that often gets abbreviated to 23.98 or 24p, as I am as familiar with that as I am with 29.975 or 29.976 being a “real” frame rate that often gets abbreviated to 29.97 or 30p.

Both of those instances are things I’ve thought to be true, and are also what a guy with local transfer house thinks/says (and he has been transferring NTSC (and many other formats) for 30 years now).

Are you saying that the transfer house and I are wrong in our thinking that NTSC 29.97 or 30p is actually 29.975 or 29.976, and that it actually is just 29.970?

[Ted Coakley]

Not so fast on the “good night” at the end of my last post :-/

Now, that newly 29.97 CT-conformed .MOV file doesn’t play in Finder (via Quick Look) – even though it plays fine in Premiere, QT, FCP7, MPEG Streamclip and Cinema Tools.

I’ve tried restarting computer, and working in another Finder window – no luck.
Other .MOV files play fine through Quick Look/Finder. Just the one CT-conformed .MOV file is having problems.

I’d like to have that clip play in Quick Look/Finder again, if possible. Anyone know how to get that working again?

[Ted Coakley]

Ta-dow, boo-yah, bam, lordy-lord, heavens to betsy, oh my……….

It worked! The conforming to 29.97 in Cinema Tools (“CT”) seems to have solved the audio/video drift problem in FCP7 > Viewer ☺

Even with all my tweaked settings I had set up in FCP7, in trying to solve this (32kHz, 29.975, every 3rd blue moon, standing on one foot, etc), once I imported the CT-conformed 29.97fps clip, it played back fine in FCP7 Viewer (and Timeline/Sequence)

Next, I re-set my FCP7 settings (Easy Setup; Audio/Video Settings >Sequence Presets & Capture Presets; Sequence > Settings) all back to the simple out-of-the-box DV NTSC 48kHz, and my newly 29.97 CT-conformed clip still played back fine in FCP7.

Furthermore, looking at this newly 29.97 CT-conformed clip in Premiere Pro 5.5 (“PP”) and in MPEG Streamclip (both places that showed 29.975 before I conformed it), it now reads as 29.97 in both MPEG Streamclip, and in ONE part of PP (Clip>Modify>Interpret Footage>Frame Rate>Use Frame Rate from File), but STILL reads 29.975 in another part of PP (Window>Metadata>File>Dynamic Media>Video Frame Rate).

Seeing that PP’s Metadata reader is still showing 29.975 leaves me wondering which metadata was actually changed in the file, especially because MPEG Streamclip now shows it to be 29.97, and (most importantly) it now WORKS in FCP7.
At this point, this is maybe over my head, and I guess not relevant to me (since it just works in FCP7 now!), but perhaps useful info to someone else troubleshooting a related issue.

**OH SHIT ALERT**
Right when I was about to post this message, I checked the PLAYBACK of the 29.97 CT-Conformed clip in MPEG Streamclip (works fine), and in PP (does NOT play fine).
In PP, I had already done an edit with the pre-CT-conformed clip (29.975), which PP handled just fine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjpcvK0pK9c, if you’re interested).
BUT, once I opened PP back up to check its Metadata reader (as I mentioned earlier), both the Clip and Timeline/Sequence audio playback are faulty in ways all over the map (sometimes mute, sometimes fine, sometimes high distortion, sometimes playing audio from other faraway parts of the clip)
I guess that since my PP Clip Import and Timeline/Sequence were based on a clip originally with 29.975 metadata, and that clip that PP points to/references is now the newly 29.97 CT-conformed clip, PP’s audio playback is now thrown out of whack.
I do still have my original pre-(or non-) CT-conformed clip that I can have this PP edit refer to for proper playback (unless someone can now tell me how to get my PP edit to now play nicely with the 29.97 CT-conformed clip), and then use the 29.97 CT-conformed clip if I want to use it on my FCP7.

AND NOW, back to this message about 30 minutes after previous comments in this message, the 29.97 CT-conformed clip is playing back FINE in PP. (except for a handful of edit points now off by 10-15 frames here and there, which I just cleaned up, so it seemingly now works fine with the 29.97 CT-conformed clip)
Go figure!

Hoo-doggie – that’s a lot!

Finally, FWIW, Michael, I didn’t understand when you said that 29.975 is not a real rate, since I’ve read all over the interwebs that true NTSC is not actually 29.97, but, rather 29.975 or 29.976 (I see both mentioned a lot). You saying NTSC is not either of those, but just 29.97?
Just curious.

Big big thanks Nick, Michael, Dave and David – for your help with this!
And to all, a good night!

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[Ted Coakley]

Conform button is in lower right (FWIW).

29.97 is available, but 29.975 is not. Other frame rates are nothing close to 29.97.

CT already says clip is at 29.97 (despite other programs saying it’s at 29.975), so, what would Conforming do?

Will Conforming cause re-encoding or transcoding or making a new file – or just change the metadata?

[Ted Coakley]

Alright, I followed my link from my earlier post, updated Cinema Tools (“CT”) to 4.5.1 (latest available, I think), and now it works in my OS 10.9.5 ☺

I launched CT, opened the problem .MOV file in CT, clicked the Analysis button, where a) it shows 29.97fps (not 29.975, despite 29.975 showing up in Premiere and MPEG Streamclip), and b) doesn’t allow me to change the the frame rate. Furthermore, I don’t see anywhere to change any of the metadata of the .MOV file/clip, in CT.

[Ted Coakley]

Well, shoot. I just installed Cinema Tools, and when I go to launch it, all I get is this error message:

“Cinema Tools quit unexpectedly while using the Cinema Tools plug-in.
Click Reopen to open the application again. Click Report to see more detailed information and send a report to Apple.”

My options are “Ignore”, “Report” and “Reopen” – none of which allow me to launch Cinema Tools, despite repeated attempts :-/