[Steve Shaw]

Can’t really recommend any displays at that price point, as we focus on the higher-end… But, as I say, most ‘screens’ in all displays come from a very few manufacturers – find a good IPS screen and then see who uses it.

As I say, ABL causes calibration issues due to poor RGB Separation.
There is no way around that with any calibration technique!

The so called correct Rec709 calibration is with a fixed set of test patterns – change the test patterns / patch size and the results will change. So when using real images the calibration will not be accurate.

But, having good 3D LUT calibration (as good as it can be) is better than the alternatives, if the profiling is done correctly. And this means calculating the ideal patch size for that particular displays the amount of ABL it suffers from. Good luck with that!

And the BT300 plasmas do indeed still suffer ABL – all the ‘Monitor’ mode does is reduce the screen output (brightness) to a point where it is less obvious. They also suffer a real ‘smear’ effect on motion.

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

We have calibrated many models – recent and older – and of varying screen sizes. Our customers have also calibrated many FSI displays and have reported the same/similar results.

Unfortunately ABL can be a bigger problem than a fixed colour error… the problem is you can’t trust the detail you are seeing – especially in the highlights, as well as totally variable color.

As ABL is variable it can not be easily countered for, and no, a 3D LUT cannot calibrate a plasma totally accurately due to ABL – no calibration can, including internal, 1D, etc!

The ABL causes very, very poor and variable RGB Separation, and that is key to any accurate calibration, by any method.

As for monitor recommendation – the best you can get that shows the ability to calibrate well.

I would go for a display that has no internal calibration, except the basics, and has a ‘natural mode’ that just shows the panel’s native colour, and use an external LUT box.

[Steve Shaw]

I think that with the instructions listed on the Light Illusion website eeColor page it is possible.

As far as we can tell Spectracal do not alter the box firmware, just re-badge it, so there should be no problem.

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

Yes, that is an example of the inaccurate calibration we have seen.

Profiling with LightSpace showed ‘red’ to be off-axis, and under gamut.

What would be really good, would be for the LUTs generated via LightSpace to be able to be directly loaded into the FSI displays, replacing the factory calibration.

Assuming the problem with the displays is as we found with Penta this would be a good solution for user calibration – and accurate (assuming the underlying display gamut was good enough).

Any FSI management reading this?
We would be happy to help.

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

The problem is we are not talking about 2% errors in our experience.

And more of a problem is the procedure needed to get a good level of guaranteed calibration.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/display_calibration.html

This is just to set-up a display BEFORE calibration.

We have actually run calibration over the net, using a virtual USB protocol, so only requiring a probe and a LUT box at the client’s location – or using SpaceMatch DCM for OS connected displays.

It works, but if the initial set-up is poor, the results will always be poor.

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

As I was quoted at the beginning of this thread by Robert I probably should add a comment or two…

First, it is true that we have been called in to calibrate a lot of displays all over the world, and we have come across FSI displays many times.

What we have seen is a lack of consistency, and a lack of accuracy time and again.

I’m sorry to be saying this – we have nothing against FSI specifically, and have seen the same problems with many other manufacturers – but that is just our findings – and that includes new displays direct from the factory and others that have been returned for re-calibration, as well as others that have been in use for a while.

We saw similar with Penta originally too.

This was not down to the probe, but the calibration system used by Penta to calibrate the display from the probe data.

Penta agreed with our findings and have changed their in-factory calibration to be much, much more accurate – they use LightSpace CMS now, with the same probes they were using originally – which prove my point above.

We have also seen very good consistency with the Sony LMD series – if a tad low on Gamut.

But, we do not recommend Plasmas at all for colour critical grading applications. The ABL (Auto Brightness Level) caused by plasma’s power saving operation (which can’t be turned off, regardless what some suppliers say!) causes major problems with colour accuracy.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=42

As just about all LED displays use screen from a small number of manufacturers calibration is down to the associated image management used, as well as the image processing electronics.

It is true that different back-lights do give different results, and some technologies to suffer Metamerism Failure, but this is more with different display technologies, not different back-lights. OLED vs. LCD for example.

But, with the correct probe offsets you can overcome all but the worse effects.

Often, you get far better results by turning off all the manufacturer’s internal processing, having the panel work in raw native mode, and perform all calibration via an external LUT box.

For HDMI connections the eeColor LUT Box is good.

For HDSDI the Tcube, Pluto or Davio boxes are needed.

Light Illusion is always happy to answer questions on calibration, etc, and we have some truly advanced colour scientists that perform our colour development work – I’m just one of the team!

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

I have found very few (actually none) monitors that can do P3 accurately…

The only displays I have found that can do P3 have been projectors (or the Dolby monitor!).

Before embarking on a P3 grade I would suggest checking your display is really accurate!

Of all the monitors that I have tested that say they do ‘P3’, not one actually managed to do it close to accurately.

Cheers,

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

Hi Mel,

As LUT Buddy says it works with 3D LUT (standard .cps and .cube formats) it should all just work (as we have discussed separately via e-mail).

But, if the formats are in some way different we will add them, as we do on a regular basis for customers who find new formats.

So there really should be no problem.

Cheers,

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

Hi Margus,

The problem is with the HDlink pro and ‘ANY’ LUT loaded into it.

The HDlink Pro distorts the LUT, so it is no longer accurate.

This is probably ok(ish) for creative LUTs, but no good at all for calibration LUTs.

We no longer use the HDlink boxes at all due to this problem.

Cheers,

Steve

[Steve Shaw]

Yeah, Plasmas are ok for client…
We just don’t recommend them for main grading.
The Penta is good. What projector do you have?

Anyone can master calibration – it is actually very easy.
I know many other manufacturers try to make it sound like a ‘black art’, but it really isn’t. And we provide a very high level of support!

Unfortunately there are no alternatives to the HDlink Pro at the same price… We use Davio and Pluto.

We are working with eeColor box, but it is not yet usable. The manufactures are working with us to fix the problems.

Cheers,

Steve