Simon Ubsdell
6
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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[Walter Soyka] ” I understand that FCPX doesn’t have traditional PIOPs, but it does have another mechanism for preserving IOPs, so the same editorial operations can still be accomplished.”
I think it’s important while accepting that favorites go some way towards answering this question to acknowledge that it’s not nearly as clean as it might be when you are dealing with multiple edit decisions within the same source clip.
Surely most editors have the need to try out different edit selections (often only an I or an O and not a range) and having to favorite to keep these selections more or less persistent means having to deal with the limitations implicit in favoriting.
For example, you cannot favorite within an already favorited region without first unfavoriting. This is surely a significant drawback. What if I wanted to keep the favorite that I was unfavoriting but use it for later?
Another example which I keep coming back to because nobody seems to want to give me an answer about it is what to do when you only want to select an I or an O and favoriting under those circumstances means selecting the whole clip forwards or backwards. Am I (again) missing something that I am seeing this as an undesirable consequence of the favoriting “solution”?
I do wonder whether the better solution isn’t favoriting at all but rather the judicious use of markers …
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Hmm….
So now you are upset because you can’t favorite a favorite when you’re upset about favorites in the first place?
With that, I’m done.”
I’m not upset at all. I thought I was participating in a discussion about whether or not favorites were the answer to whether or not it was OK that FCPX did not have persistent I or persistent O.
Obviously joined the wrong thread, sorry 😉
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “You can select multiple clips, though.”
Does that really have anything at all to do with the discussion?
[Jeremy Garchow] “And what can’t you do?”
You can’t favorite an I or an O singly without in the process overwriting any favorites that you might have already applied to the same clip. (Actually it’s more complicated than that and not in a good way but that’ll do for starters.)
Or if an I or O occurs within the boundaries of an already existing favorite you have to unfavorite before you can proceed – which can get very messy.
And so on.
And all this because FCPX is built on the foundations of iMovie’s range selection model.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] ”
You cannot select a clip in the Browser without setting a range”This is the bit that I find problematic and it’s significant because it goes to the very root of how FCPX works – and of course how iMovie was designed which is why we are where we are today. It’s a limitation in the architecture.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Walter Soyka] “Am I not understanding?
Make an in and out selection in the timeline, then make an out-only selection in the browser (this will automatically select from the beginning of the clip to the end, as you know).
Shift-Q or Shift-D will edit into the timeline, matching the out points, and extending backward to the timeline’s in point. The browser’s “in point” will be ignored.
Isn’t that what you want?”
ooops, my mistake based on skim-reading the daft FCPX manual.
Example: Make a backtimed three-point edit
Set start and end points for the source selection in the Event Browser.
In the Timeline, position the skimmer (or the playhead, if the skimmer is not present) at the location in your project where you want the clip to end.
Do either of the following:
To backtime the selection using a connect edit: Press Shift-Q.
To backtime the selection using an overwrite edit: Press Shift-D.
“Set start and end points”???? How can you do anything else????
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I think what’s getting missed here is that most editors use “persistent” i/o points for TEMPORARY information. It’s not intended as a replacement for subclips. Instead, I want to be able to come back to the same clip at exactly the same point I last marked an “in”. Favorites and/or subclipping are an extra unnecessary step in that process.”
Exactly.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Walter Soyka] “What’s the harm in storing a single point as a range that extends to the media limit on the other side?”
I wonder whether the limitation of range selection is at the root of why we still don’t have the traditional Replace edit function (Replace in FCPX is not the same and very limited by comparison).
Replace is the single most useful edit function in traditional NLEs as it saves several steps on a huge variety of edits, as well of course as enabling sync point editing.
There has to be a good reason why it’s still not implemented and the limitation of range selection could well be behind it.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Backtime, is essentially, using the out, regular edit is using the in.
Setting a range on the Project and backtiming is essentially lining up the out points. Again, it looks different, but it’s there.”
Yes, as I said, you can perform a backtime edit that uses a single O in the timeline, BUT …
you can’t perform a backtime edit that uses a single O in the browser.
And that’s because FCPX only know about “ranges”, it doesn’t “actually” know about I and O, except cosmetically, as I have explained before.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[David Lawrence] “The difference between AND and OR is the crucial one. FCPX allows for AND (kind of) but won’t allow OR in any useful sense.”
Yep!”
From a design point of view, there is surely a case to be made that “range selection” which is the only kind of selection available in FCPX is going to have its limitations.
One very clear one that I have pointed to above is that you can’t actually do one kind of backtimed three point edit – namely set an IO in the timeline and set an O only in the browser. This won’t work in FCPX because the selection in the browser is always and only a range – the browser doesn’t actually speak the language of IO.
This is not a good thing.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Walter Soyka] “What do you find lacking with FCPX’s three-point editing? What’s the harm in storing a single point as a range that extends to the media limit on the other side? Since FCP7 only offered a single set of persistent I/O point(s), what’s limiting about the overlapping favorite restriction in FCPX?”
Oops, I’ve just answered quite a bit of that in my post to Jeremy here:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/34389
Ranges in FCPX are the only selection option and that’s not good enough. See for example my point about the inability to backtime a three point edit using one O mark only in the Browser. Not possible. Because you can only select a range in the Browser. A serious design flaw.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com