[Shawn Miller]

[John Rofrano] “You could use a narrow definition based on the term “graphics”. If you are superimposing a graphic on the screen, and it’s “moving”… it’s a Motion Graphic..”

If I create a graphic that looks like a bird in flight, superimpose it on a background plate, and animate it to move across the screen, is it a motion graphic or a visual effect? 🙂

[John Rofrano] “If you are just tracking a background on a green screen shot, or adding smoke, that is a visual effect.”

What about the moving graphics which were superimposed over an object tracked Robert Downey Jr in Iron Man, were those motion graphics or VFX shots? What if I design a shot where a moving logo catches fire and goes up in a puff of photorealistic smoke… would that be VFX or motion graphics… how about a photorealistic splash of CG water, washing over a dirty kitchen counter to reveal a shiny, clean logo? What if my intent is to have some graphics look real in a shot but not others…:-)

[John Rofrano] “To me, motion graphics requires a graphics designer or at least “a graphic”. Everything else is a VFX.”

There are a lot of VFX artists who are also graphic designers, and a lot of VFX shots require the creation of some sort of graphic element… where does that leave us? 🙂

[John Rofrano] “I would say that tracking a 3D object that is “unnatural” such as 3D text over a moving landscape is considered motion graphics while tracking a 3D object that is supposed to look like it’s naturally part of the scene (e.g., a car that wasn’t originally there) is a VFX. The same skills and tools can be used to complete each task, but from the perspective of the audience, one is a moving graphic while the other is a visual effect meant to trick them into thinking that it is “real”.”

I agree with this to a point – but I also think there are a lot of instances where there’s enough cross over, that it might be tougher to classify a shot as one thing or the other. The opening sequences from Entourage, Person of Interest and Pacific Rim come to mind. 🙂

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Simon Ubsdell] ”
I think everything you say there is exactly right – “motion graphics” is a much wider and more sophisticated category than it’s ever been and only becoming more so all the time.

However, it’s important to stress (and you of course know this) that the gulf between even the highest end motion graphics and “true” VFX is getting wider as well. High end VFX shots are vastly more complicated in every sense than the kind of thing we’re talking about here and the complexity keeps getting significantly greater. Unfortunately there has been a general blurring of definitions that is quite confusing and often misleading – so you get movies with pretty basic “motion graphics type” effects shots claiming 1000+ VFX in a bid to claim parity with genuine VFX heavy shows. It helps with the marketing buzz but it’s a bit cheeky some of the time …”

Yup, I completely agree. It’s a fascinating industry that seems to be evolving on a daily basis. It’s still mindblowing to me that it might take the efforts of a few hundred (or a thousand) people to deliver a single shot. I’m also fascinated by what’s happening on the “low end”; 3D scanning with a DSLR or an inexpensive handheld device, panoramic HDR stills or SDR video capture with a sub $500 device, 3D camera and object tracking in sub $500 applications, 13 stop video cameras that can capture raw, 12bit images for $995, inexpensive to free node based compositing software, “blockbuster strength” 3D rendering software for under $1,000, online render services for $.16 per frame (in some cases), etc. I do agree that the difference between the high end and the low end is complexity (and required labor), but it’s pretty cool to see where the ball has moved in terms of overall quality.

Lastly, I agree that part of the confusion about the term ‘motion graphics’ comes from marketing types… but that’s par for the course, I think. 🙂

[Shawn Miller]

[Oliver Peters] “Walter Soyka] “Define “motion graphics.””

All manner of moving graphics or video. Low-level VFX. So, animatics, flying logos, heavy graphics-based composites, green screens, window inserts, simple multi-image composites, composites that require layering over several tracks or layers. IOW – the genre that is largely defined by AE.”

I feel as if this might be harder to define now than it was say, ten years ago. The HUD animations you see in movies like Oblivion or The Avengers, are those VFX or motion graphics? The VFX shots in shows like The Flash or Agents of Shield, are they low end or high end? The HUD graphics in Ironman, are those low end VFX or high end motion graphics? Even 3D camera and object tracking is used in motion graphics projects now, projects that would have been considered VFX work 15 years ago. I’m not saying there aren’t lines between VFX and motion graphics, high end and low end post production… but I don’t think the lines are as clear as they used to be.

[Shawn Miller]

[Marcus Moore] ”
The only time Ive used AE in the last few years has been for 3D Camera tracking, a feature which I’d very much like to see make it’s way into Motion- natively or as a plug-in.”

Have you considered using Syntheyes for tracking? I believe it has an export module for Motion – for $299.00, I don’t think you could do better.

[Shawn Miller]

[Oliver Peters] “[John Rofrano] “so we’ll have to wait and see if Affinity can get a foothold into that marke”

All Mac-only applications are going to have difficulty achieving critical mass. While creative industries skew heavily toward Mac, that isn’t a given. I’ve run into plenty of corporate environments and individuals running PCs with Adobe software.”

I think this might depend on which segment(s) of the creative industry you’re looking at. In my experience, designers and editors tend to favor Macs, while 3D/VFX and motion designers seem to be more platform agnostic, with more folks leaning towards PCs when looking to replace their aging Mac Pros. But I agree with your larger point, Oliver. Real alternatives to Photoshop and Illustrator will have to be cross platform if they want to make a serious dent in Adobe’s market share.

[Shawn Miller]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Ha! You’re speaking my language, Shawn.

It does beg the question, why would I put up with that shit? Well, I enjoy using fcpx, and I hope this particular workflow gets easier.

Right now, it’s a pain. It’s fine for :30 spots, but anything longer than about 3 minutes is very tedious.”

As a long time AE user, I know exactly what you mean! I hope Apple fixes this soon. 🙂

[Shawn Miller]

[Jeremy Garchow] ” I have lately been using Premiere for conform (So I leave FCPX, translate the timeline, import to Pr, watch the program in Pr and fix any problems, export an XML for Baselight, receive graded media, relink to the new video, watch the program to make sure it’s right, export an XML and translate to FCPXML, import and watch to make sure it’s right, fix any problems and output),”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nnaeO6QSPI

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[Shawn Miller]

[Scott Witthaus] ”

[Shawn Miller] “I wonder if Lynda or Pluralsite might buy them out.”

Linked In recently bought Lynda.com. Not sure what that says either.”

Same old story I imagine. Market consolidation, synergy or vertical integration. Pluralsite recently purchased Digital Tutors, who can say who will be next on the block; Total Training, FXPHD? I am a little surprised that none of these bigger training companies have been bought by YouTube or Vimeo.

[Shawn Miller]

[Mark Suszko] ”
It’s really very, very hard to make a buck at training without having a lot of sponsors or a patron in these days of everything being “free” online.”

[Mark Suszko] “If Adobe was smart, they’d put him on exclusive contract to be their “Factory Driver”.”

It’s an interesting problem. How to provide great training products that people are willing to pay for, while inexpensive and ‘free’ alternatives abound. I wonder if Lynda or Pluralsite might buy them out.

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Bret Williams] ” I believe you can cut and paste between Premiere and AE.”

In case anyone actually cares… you can cut and paste clips from a PPro timeline into an AE timeline, and you can drag and drop or import a PPro sequence into an AE project panel (where it will treat that sequence as a clip). You can’t D&D from AE to PPro though, you have to use the Media Browser or the import dialog to do that. 🙂

Shawn