[Shawn Miller]

[Steve Connor] “[Shawn Miller] “and this is where I’m seeing more 3D artists switch to Windows… they want faster previews, and Apple just isn’t offering the hardware that will let them do that.
”

Nor will they ever, I suspect”

That’s too bad… I would like to have an Apple workstation in my setup at some point. You’re probably right though, they don’t seem all that interested in building the kind of machine that would be useful to me. ☹

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Andrew Kimery] “[Shawn Miller] “Of the corporate producers I know, about half of them are on Windows and the other half is on OSX. As (maybe) a curious side note, it seems like the more they lean toward 3D/VFX/mograph work (AE, C4D, Max), the more likely they seem to be on Windows, I’ve also seen a number of people switching in the last few years as they move from FCP, or consider hardware upgrades.
”

Over the last 10yrs or so there certainly seems to have been an influx of Macs into the ‘no one ever got fired for buying IBM’ world. For 3D and animation work I too generally think of that as PC dominated. Which makes since because a render farm of PCs can be cheaper and faster than a render farm of Macs and PCs have a lot more flexibility when it comes to GPUs, drivers, etc.,. I mean, it’s only been in the last few years (I think since 10.9) that you could put pretty much any GPU in a Mac as opposed to only Mac-specific GPUs. AFAIK even now non-Mac GPUs still don’t fully function if installed on a Mac (you lose the boot screen which means no access to pre-boot features like Safe Mode, selecting a different boot drive, etc.,).”

Good points all, I didn’t know that non-Mac GPUs behaved any differently on the newer versions of the Mac OS. What’s really kind of interesting and exiting in the world of 3D right now is the rise of powerful, inexpensive renderers that can give you fast previews of your work. With enough CPU or GPU power, you can now limit the number of times that you have to render out previews before sending out to a render farm – and this is where I’m seeing more 3D artists switch to Windows… they want faster previews, and Apple just isn’t offering the hardware that will let them do that.

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Steve Connor] “[Shawn Miller] “Lastly, everything you’re saying about PPro CS5 could be said about Motion today”

Apart that it isn’t a great NLE ☺ Motion is, at least, reliable. “”

lol – okay, I’ll concede that Motion is a crappy NLE. My guess though, is that if you put the question to a number of advanced AE users who tried to use Motion the same way they use After Effects, you might get a different answer.

[Steve Connor]“CS5 certainly wasn’t for a long time”

I never really had major problems with any of the CS applications, but I do understand that others did… just as some people have show stopping issues with CC now.. I don’t… but I know that others do. ☺

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Steve Connor] “[andy patterson] “Don’t let anyone ever tell you you chose wisely. I have used FCP 7.

Having said that wanna race? You can use FCP 7 and I’ll use PP CS 5.0. While you are transcoding I will be editing : )
”

Yep CS5, it was SOOO great that it was widely used across the Industry and there were LOADS of Freelance jobs around for it, whereas that FCP7 that you think isn’t a wise choice was hardly used and there was NO Freelance work for it.

But you feel free have a race, because that’s what Editing is – a race!”

I think it depended on where you tended to work and what kind of jobs you were looking for. When I was freelancing, there were plenty of jobs that called for knowledge of Premiere – most of those weren’t pure editing jobs, but I did have to know it to work. I think it’s easy to underestimate how many people were using Premiere for paid work back in those days… but we were working nonetheless. I imagine that sounds crazy to an audience of FCP users.☺

Lastly, everything you’re saying about PPro CS5 could be said about Motion today… does that mean it’s not a good or useful application? ☺

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Andrew Kimery] ”

[Shawn Miller] “That is interesting – I wonder what explains the differences we’re seeing in OS preference… region maybe?”

I mainly do doc/unscripted as well as larger web/digital companies. Especially in LA a lot of the work is directly or indirectly connected to TV and film (and broadcast/film is Mac-country in LA) so I think that has something to do with it. You are either working on a TV/film project or you are working with people that have worked on TV/film projects and bring their workflow with them. Or you have no connection to TV/film, but you aspire to work in TV/film so you mimic their workflows as best you can in order to become knowledgable about them.”

I don’t know very many people who fit that description… not locally. ☺ Of the corporate producers I know, about half of them are on Windows and the other half is on OSX. As (maybe) a curious side note, it seems like the more they lean toward 3D/VFX/mograph work (AE, C4D, Max), the more likely they seem to be on Windows, I’ve also seen a number of people switching in the last few years as they move from FCP, or consider hardware upgrades.

[Andrew Kimery] ”
But even when I was in Indiana it was Mac-centric for audio and video post production. Corporate guys seemed to be mainly PC and I always assumed that had something to do with their clients and/or IT departments being PC-centric (birds of a feather and all that). Plus (real or imagined) there is always the ‘Apple tax’.”

This makes sense to me. It used to be that IT departments in general dictated what kind of machine you did your work on – getting anything other than what was available from an approved vendor could be challenging. It’s not so much that way anymore, but probably explains things to some extent. Even in my company, a lot of the designers are Mac centric, but the folks who do more 3D and mograph work are pretty evenly split.

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Steve Connor] “[Shawn Miller] “I don’t doubt that – what kind of work do you mostly do?”

A few years ago it was Documentary but it’s mostly Corporate and Web now”

That is interesting – I wonder what explains the differences we’re seeing in OS preference… region maybe?

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Steve Connor] “[Shawn Miller] ” I’ve been banging around in corporate and indie film production for about as long, and in my corner of the creative universe (event, corporate, indie, local, etc)… editors aren’t nearly as OS centric. I think I’ve only been required to use a Mac twice in my whole career… and that was at Microsoft. ☺ Like I said though, I don’t have any real numbers to support my beliefs, but I would be interested in knowing what the breakdown is. ”

and in my corner of the industry I haven’t seen hardly any shops using PC’s at all, I haven’t edited on a PC based NLE for at least a decade”

I don’t doubt that – what kind of work do you mostly do? As kind of an interesting side note, of the people that I know who do the same kind of work as I do, hardly anyone uses Vegas (anymore), Avid or FCPX, and the split between Premiere Pro and FCP Classic seems to be 70/30ish (probably less for FCPc, now that I think about it). It makes me wonder how the conversation might be different on the Premiere Pro forum.

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Andrew Kimery] “[Shawn Miller] “I don’t know if I would take that bet. ☺ I could possibly see the base for dedicated Photoshop and Illustrator users (designers and photographers) skewing a bit more towards OSX, but I would be surprised if motion designers, compositors, 3D/VFX artists, video editors, etc., were as Mac centric as their print/design/photography counterparts. I don’t have any numbers to back this up, but I feel like there’s been a steady stream of 3D, VFX and mograph artists switching to Windows PCs as they continue to offer more and better performance per dollar than any offerings from Apple. I could be completely wrong, but I would be really curious to know what the actual numbers are.”

Editing, at least in my experience, is very Mac-centric. I’m over 15yrs in and between CA and IN I’ve seen maybe 5 or 6 PC-based NLEs in use. Maybe the shift to PCs will keep happening naturally (depending on what Apple does), but if Adobe just killed Mac support out of the blue it would go very, very poorly for them.”

I do wonder about that though – is it industry , strata or geography? I’ve been banging around in corporate and indie film production for about as long, and in my corner of the creative universe (event, corporate, indie, local, etc)… editors aren’t nearly as OS centric. I think I’ve only been required to use a Mac twice in my whole career… and that was at Microsoft. ☺ Like I said though, I don’t have any real numbers to support my beliefs, but I would be interested in knowing what the breakdown is.

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[andy patterson] ”
Adobe products seem to favor the PC according to the benchmarks. “

I think the performance discrepancies on Adobe software (between Windows and OSX) have more to do with Apple’s hardware. FWIW, every cross platform, power hungry creative software application that I can think of runs faster on Windows and Linux computers when equipped with faster hardware (Resolve, Maya, 3DS Max, Cinema 4D, Renderman, Maxwell, Arnold, Octane, etc.).

[andy patterson] ”
Adobe could just say to the Apple users the PC works just fine and we will no longer support Apple. Having said that I could use the CC on a Mac easy enough but as I have stated Adobe seems to work better on the PC. Adobe should go PC only and let the performance get even better.”

I’m a PC user, but I would hate to see that happen. I think being a cross platform software/services provider makes Adobe a stronger company and helps to make their products better. I also like having a landscape where creative professionals have choices – I want Apple to offer more powerful computers for less money, I want to see Adobe extend the Creative Cloud applications to Linux, and I want BMD to stop giving Resolve and Fusion away for free… of course none of that will happen, but I think those would be good things for the creative community in general. Like I said, I’m a PC user, but I want Apple to give me serious reasons to consider their platform, and once I’m there, I want more than just their applications to choose from. ☺

Shawn

[Shawn Miller]

[Andrew Kimery] “That probably wouldn’t go well as I’d bet the majority of Adobe’s base are Apple users.”

I don’t know if I would take that bet. ☺ I could possibly see the base for dedicated Photoshop and Illustrator users (designers and photographers) skewing a bit more towards OSX, but I would be surprised if motion designers, compositors, 3D/VFX artists, video editors, etc., were as Mac centric as their print/design/photography counterparts. I don’t have any numbers to back this up, but I feel like there’s been a steady stream of 3D, VFX and mograph artists switching to Windows PCs as they continue to offer more and better performance per dollar than any offerings from Apple. I could be completely wrong, but I would be really curious to know what the actual numbers are.

Shawn