Scott Sheriff
Forum Replies Created
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[Greg Fulcher] “As best I know, my clients hire me for my experience. A professional editor provides solutions their problems.
As Tim said, this isn’t a new fear. My livelihood has been ‘at risk’ time and time again.
Clients have gone away, opting for their own in-house edit system but almost always come back after a few bad experiences, or I’ve been hired for my day rate to go in and use their system.
I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over the demise of a professional editor.
Remember, video didn’t kill the radio star.”
First, I agree that video killing the radio star is a myth.
IMO you have to look at the ‘average editor’, in the way we would look at athletes, or maybe big name musicians. Just like in these jobs, there are a small group of superstars making the big money. The bulk of the overall participants are the minor league players, and amateurs.
So it really depends on which group you are talking about.
If the professional editor is the guy making an above average salary, they will always have a job. There are just going to be fewer of them each year. They’re being replaced by growing ranks of those making average, or less than average wages and even amateurs. This has been happening for quite a while. I got OT on a similar subject in this thread if you’re interested.
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/6462Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[Scott Sheriff] “Old school online million dollar linear bay
.04*$1,000,000=$40,000 per day-this doesn’t work out.
The actual rate was $4,000 per day, or $500 per hr.
Clearly the million dollar bay isn’t pulling it’s weight, since it earned $4K per day, and not 40K.”An afterthought I had on this was the difference in lifespan between the million dollar online bay, and todays NLE’s might explain some of this discrepancy.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[TS O'Grady] “I don’t know why any of you would consider this an indication of what FCP X editors have in store for the future.”
Common sense and because lower cost gear/lower day rates looks like a trend. I think its unrealistic to see an almost 70% decrease in the cost of software and hardware for the average FCP set-up, and not expect it to drive rates down by a similar percentage.
Bret makes a real good point, but he’s off a decimal point on the million dollar room.
If we continue to use his .04 ratio which works for current/typical Mac Pro rooms in the 10-20k range, but apply it to the iMac and X combo lets see what we get.
I already said the cheap new iMac and X would cost around $1,600. Lets just double that to cover what we will spend to get a workspace, audio monitors, etc. That would seem about right.
So thats $3,200, for an FCP X/iMac based room, at the crazy Craigslist rate of $15 per hr, which is $120 per day. 120/3200=.0375 which is not so far off Brets ratio of .04.If we work it the other way and say Brets .04 ratio is a predictor of hourly rate based on the investment of the room.
For the iMac w/X, single monitor bay:
.04*$3,200=$128 per day, or $16 per hour. Only a dollar difference for the Cragslist ad.For a Mac Pro octo w/FCP, standard two monitor set-up:
.04*$10,000=$400 per day, or $50 per hr.
Pretty easy rate to find for this type of set-up.For a Mac Pro octo w/FCP, two monitor set-up, plus I/O card w/calibrated monitor:
.04*$15,000=$600 per day, or 75 per hr.
Once again, a rate that is pretty easy to find for this set-up too.Old school online million dollar linear bay
.04*$1,000,000=$40,000 per day-this doesn’t work out.
The actual rate was $4,000 per day, or $500 per hr.
Clearly the million dollar bay isn’t pulling it’s weight, since it earned $4K per day, and not 40K.Sorry for the OT/threadjack. But if we are going to talk about the future. And that future is FCP X based edit rooms, we really need to look at what the earning potential is for the average owner/operator of these rooms.
Bret’s magic ratio of the room cost divided by the day rate being .04 seems a reasonable place to start.
It seems highly unlikely that rates will go up with the introduction of FCP X.
Nor does it seem likely they’ll even stay at current levels since they have been trending down for the last 30 years.We could just as easily look at the iMac running FCP X as being 68% cheaper, than the typical Mac Pro octo w/two monitors.
And it’s an odd coincidence that the Craigslist ad rate is 70% less than the typical current rate for FCP on a Mac Pro.
Or maybe it’s not an odd coincidence at all that rates are tied to what the gear costs.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[Bret Williams] “All sad but true. However economy scale is still fairly decent. A million dollar room, at 4k a day is 4000/1000000=.04. Now you might have a 10k room at 400/day which is essentially the same profit margin with a lot less risk but easier access, which means more competition. I probably fall closer to a 15k room at 600/day which oddly enough is the same .04 ratio. IF I can keep it operating. But it’s a pretty small expense, even to switch to premiere. But at these rates I can’t afford to pay an editor. I’m it.”
That is a real interesting observation!
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[TS O'Grady] “The sky was going to fall back then too.”
It did fall.
And it started much before the DV era.
Tape online bay 4×1″ w/DT, 3M/E switcher, ADO, Chyron IV w/MGM. Editor, Font Op and Tape Op. $4,000 per day.
That was in late 80’s-’90s dollars. Would probably be the equivalent of $6,000 or more in todays dollars.
It was a million dollar room that couldn’t do a tenth of what you can do today.
It was booked solid 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week at that rate.
Even something as simple as sitting with the Chyron op and doing font pre-compose was $100 per hour.If I were you, I wouldn’t act too smug thinking that the trend of falling rates will magically stop right before it effects you. Or that 15 per hr CL ad is meaningless. Friends of mine that worked at places like Post Perfect, and Telemation also thought they were too good, too big to fail. Lobbies full of shiny awards, names constantly mentioned in Post Magazine. It can happen to them, and it can happen to you.
Someone will take that CL job. And someone will take the next one like it. And then someone will post a job for an even lower rate. And someone will take that gig too. And some day, you may find, that someone is you…Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[Rick Wise] “For the moment there probably are no gigs for FCP X editors either. But that should change soon.”
Sooner than you thought!
“From L.A. Craigslist on 6/23:
EXPERIENCED Video Editor – Expert in Final Cut Pro (Burbank, CA)
Date: 2011-06-23, 10:04AM PDT
Reply to: job-4z9je-2458002435@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]We are seeking for a full time video editor to edit short segment video clips for our network of websites.
These are the requirements to apply and you must meet every single criteria:
– An expert in Final Cut Pro. We are looking to upgrade to FCP X…any knowledge of this would be very helpful.
– Be able to work in an extremely fast, high energy, fun environment.
– An expert in different video formats and the MAC OS X environment.
– Be able to edit on the fly, EXTREMELY fast when asked to turn around a job.
– Have general knowledge of celebrities.
– Work very organized and follow edit bay’s organizational system.
– You must be creative. We don’t want to spoon feed you when asking for a clip. You need to be able to understand on quick directions and turn the job around FAST.
– Our videos are very high energy and fast (average video is around 1 minute). Make sure you can cut a quick clip and not lose the audience.
– Have transportation to get to the office.
– Able to use teleprompter software.In order to apply, please submit your resume and a link to your reel.
Location: Burbank, CA
Compensation: $15 per hour”I know it’s been reposted several times, but it is a great yardstick of where we are at.
Or maybe where we are going.
I would imagine that if you’re not on either coast, this would be more like 8 bucks an hour.
But lets look at a one-sheet down and dirty business plan based on this rate:300 bucks for Movie Hero, I mean FCP X
1199 for a cheap new iMac
1648.90 total inc CA sales taxGood news. It will only take 110 hours to pay off the computer and app at 15 bucks an hour.
Now, if you can keep your system busy for a regular 40 hour week, that will pull in $600. Or $2,400 a month. Or $28,800 a year gross.
Figure about a 32% total tax hit in Cali, and you can net $19,584. Of course you’ll have to do the marketing, billing and system work on your own time just to make that, if this is the future rate for X.
Get a roommate or two, don’t own a car, skip the health insurance, lots of Top Ramen, $19,500 is doable, right?Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[Ronald Lindeboom] “Over the years we have done a very good job of this but as markets get more and more desperate, we have seen a few companies use some very clandestine methods to try to get themselves some extra advantage. We have warned them and we plan to get even more aggressive in the days ahead.”
That is great. Thanks for keeping it real, as they say.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[David Roth Weiss] “That is full disclosure if I’ve ever seen it. Great job Richard.”
I’ll have to second that.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[David Roth Weiss] “cherry pick convenient parts of reportage and make them sound like official word from on high at Apple simply because it sounds impressive and bolsters your argument.”
99% of the apple defenders resort to using this tactic, or the fact they just “know” what apple is going to do. Because that is all they have for ammo. They have no actual facts. They also cherry pick apples past actions to try and make their case. The other 1% just resort to name calling.
This has been going on since the NAB Supermeet demo.
This forum was filled with factless rhetoric based on a tightly controlled demo, with no Q&A session, or actual hands on testing. They went on and on with these buzz-word laced posts, making X seem like it was the second coming of Jesus. Any skeptics were promptly shouted down. Mostly with personal attacks, because just as now, they have no facts to base their opinion on.Several things seem really clear when I read posts by the staunch apple defenders.
1. They committed to liking this release, and declaring it a winner very early on based on nothing. They spent countless hours telling us about paradigm shifts, and how apple is so smart, so cutting edge, and so committed to the professional market. Now they will have to defend apple at all costs to protect their reputation and back up their predictions.2. Apple defenders are clearly more invested in the brand then they are their craft, or their peers and colleagues. This is actually very sad, and pathetic.
3. Apples cloak and dagger way it does business gives it the feel of an exclusive club for some of the apple defenders. Like the Skull and Bones, or Masons. Some just want the ego boost of looking like one of the famed insiders, and being privy to something the rest of us are not.
4. And last, but not least there are some that don’t use the product in the traditional way, and have a financial stake in apples success. They earn a living from training, system set-up and the like. The EOL of FCS3 and the intro of X are an entirely new and lucrative revenue stream for them. Being critical of apple would be bad for them, their business, and their reputation.
In all this fray, I have to give major props and kudos to David Roth Weiss. While not an over the top early supporter of X, he was still very optimistic in many of his posts prior to the release. After the release was out, and he examined the facts as they stood, David sucked it up and was willing to admit it was not what he was hoping for. That not only takes a lot of balls, but shows that he has a lot of credibility.
Love X or not, I don’t care. But those that unduly criticize David, or the other skeptics including myself need to take a good look in the mirror, and examine their own motives and credibility.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
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[J Hussar] “I have to laugh – I doubt anyone is worried that FCPX will make anyone a better editor, in fact I believe it will make anyone using it worse which will cut down the competition. If people want to use bad tools, be my guest – please use iMovie as that really has less features and is therefore even better by your logic!”
The only tool that will make Aaron a better editor is an enema, a brain transplant, or both. Even apple can’t fix stupid.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.comI have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed…“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair