Ron Shook
Forum Replies Created
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Luis,
[Luis Caffesse] “It was my understanding that Avid works directly with native DVCPro P2 MXF files.”
If that’s the case, it’s a very good thing.
Ron Shook
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Michael,
[Michael] “Instead of utilizing tape in the beginning for aquistion, you’re utilizing tape in the end, for archiving.”
Tape is nearly at an end for archiving as well, and I think everyone needs to ask themselves if putting $25-80k into an HD tape deck makes any but short term sense anymore. Holographic Optical will make its commercial debute sometime in the next year, initially cheaper than tape and probably very inexpensive a year from its commercial introduction. Can we make do with hard drive archiving, perhaps doubling up for added safety, until then? I think so. The commodity IT revolution is nearly upon us for everything but camera heads, lenses and display devices, i.e., the opposite ends of the content creation chain. The rest is all computer hardware and software.
Ron Shook
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Graeme,
[Graeme Nattress] “MXF doesn’t get transcodec to Quicktime. Both MXF and Quicktime are “wrappers’ for the very same underlying DV/DV50/DV100 codec data, so any such conversion should be very rapid.”
I understand the process. “Transcoded” was a bad choice of words. Would “rewrapped” be better? (g) Or converted? In FCP can this “rewrapping” happen on the fly when the P2 MXF files are ingested, or must they be ingested and then “rewrapped, i.e., is it a one or 2 stage process to make P2 MXF files usable in FCP?
Ron Shook
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Karl,
First, let me say that you put the P2 rational very succinctly and clearly.
[Karl] “It’s a debatable point but the reason P2 costs so much is because they want it to be flawless and to operate at speeds which are futureproof. The Rev can only sustain a Data rate of 100Mbits/s or thereabouts – which is fast enough for HD recording but not so good for offload or any future developments/improvements.”
I think that P2 is a beautiful design and technological achievement and I’m very high on it several years down the road and if any camcorder I purchase today is able to use that technology several years down the road, all the better, assuming the camcorder is still viable several years down the road. However it is what works today that must be the guage for whatever camcorder I purchase today, and P2 just isn’t working today (and misses by a very wide mark) from a cost standpoint for anyone who must shoot a lot of video under ever decreasing or at best stagnant budgets. Since tape transports for DVCPro50 & 100 are too complex and costly for under $10k camcorders, only hard drives of one stripe or another fit the bill, and for a lot of us, on camera hard disk recorders without some sort of cartridge system don’t quite make it either because there is nothing for a client to walk away with.
BTW, the offload argument doesn’t work one whit today, although that should change dramatically over the next year. As far as I know there isn’t a single NLE in existence that can work directly with native DVCPro P2 MXF files. Only FCP comes close but that involves transcoding the files to QT, an extra time consuming step that can’t be significantly faster than realtime. All other solutions at this time that I’m aware of involve capturing DVCPro in realtime from camera or deck via Firewire.
[Karl] “If anything Panasonic are just a few years too early…..Its actually nice for once for a company to be ahead of the game”
It’s Panasonic’s job to supply and sell products that put their clients ahead of the game, otherwise they won’t sell many products and it won’t matter how far ahead of the game they are.
Ron Shook
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Michael,
[Michael] “Shoot on DV or HDV then.”
That’s not a solution for me or Panasonic. I want to shoot shoot on DVCProHD not HDV, and I assume that Panasonic wants me to do so as well. (g)
The solution for me to do so is so relatively simple. See my reply to Jiri on this thread.
Ron Shook
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Jiri,
[jiri vrozina] “Well if people need workflow and they get PAID decent rates,then cost of Storage like P2,Flash MC,Iomega REV and others will be no problem.”
That’s non-sensical. If I use use a cost of $500/ 8 GB memory card, it cost $2000 to equal the capacity of a $70 REV Pro cartridge or a $40 REV cartridge, i.e., solid state memory will be equal to 30-50 times the cost of this hard drive solution, i.e. again, REV is no problem, but P2 is a monster problem for a $6k camcorder.
[jiri vrozina] “I make a bet with You in 2 years you will look back and think differently.”
Of course, in 2 or 3 years when solid state memory prices can approach the cost of hard drive storage, I’ll feel differently, but it’s no solution now, for me, and I very much doubt for you either.
The Firestore drive, if it proves to be self-contained, is a step in the right direction and a solution for some types of production with the HGX-200 or other P2 camcorders. Imagine, however, a Firestore that used REV hard drive Cartridges. I’m not sure if they would be fast enough, but it wouldn’t have to be REV to use a hard drive cartridge system. The technology is here today to use 100 GB transportable drives in a caddie/cartridge system of a Firestore like on board storage device where the drives could be popped in and out of such a device like changing a tape, and those drive caddie/cartridges could be hooked to your NLE as external drives with a firewire cable and power supply, either for direct editing or ingest into the NLE. An Asian factory could churn these out for $150-200 a pop, and you’d have something to put into the hot little hands of your client if the workflow called for that.
Now, if the Firestore drive proves to have such a system, which I doubt, all of my workflow issues with P2 camcorders would dissolve in a wink.
Ron Shook
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Kyle,
[Kyle S] “I would hope that Thompson is holding them to a higher standard”
Of course they will. They aren’t about to bet their reputation on suspect technology.
Ron Shook
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Blub,
[Blub] “If 8meg or other P2 cards drop to half your assumed price it would still be mind blowing and unaffordable. All this talk of P2 cards dropping in price
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Venda,
[venda j] “I downloaded a MXF file and I can’t get it into FCP. I read the P2 data sheet and it says that all files are stored in the MXF file. Now FCP5 says it supports P2. So why can’t I see or get at this file.
Seems to me that FCP only is able to see the P2 card but not read/use the info on it without flip4mac. Why so many steps? The price for Flip4Mac is crazy and Panasonic should make it so we can use these files without all the run around. Am I missing something?”
Since your problem is with FCP not with Panasonic perhaps you should repeat this question on the FCP forum. I’d like to hear what they have to say. I’ve been wondering if FCP could work with these MXF files. Perhaps what they call P2 support consists only of capture in realtime over 1394 from camera or quasi deck. Several PC solutions are like that at this time.
Ron Shook
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Chris,
[Blub] “Does anyone know of any large video conference happening in late Oct or Nov where Panasonic might roll out the new 200 camera?”
I had to laugh, thinking whether I would take the time to look up the dates of the NAB Post+ show in NYC, and there as I’m wondering whether to click on your post is a big banner ad for the show. It’s Nov. 15-17. Suppose Pana’s gonna use that?
Ron Shook