Robert Monaghan
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Hi,
Just updated my OS to 10.6.8. I have a 12-core MacPro.
The firmware on my Kona3 is the 64-bit 2008 release. (Latest)
I upgraded to the 9.0.1 Kona drivers before upgrading to 10.6.8.I can’t say that this will work for everyone. But it works for me.
bob.
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
POBox 24124
Santa Barbara, CA, 93121
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
Hi Samuel,
My DPX package will preserve the bitdepth (the “444” as you put it) and the TC. If you are using LogC footage, it won’t touch the Log data, either, preserving the data as it goes into the DPX file. My software will also properly create the DPX header, too, indicating it is LogC data.
bob.
https://www.gluetools.comRobert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
POBox 24124
Santa Barbara, CA, 93121
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
Typically many camera manufactures will use a curve to take the sensor data (14-bit, or even 12 bit, for instance) to selectively remove parts of the image data. The results are then stored, compressed, etc. (I suspect Red works this way, and I know that some Phantom Cameras work this way, for instance.)
To reconstitute the data, the reverse version of the curve is applied, to generate the new image. Afterwards a series of steps (the “Color Science”) is performed. Actually, the curve that is used to reconstitute the data is often specialized color science, as well. Many cameras use this technique right now.
To answer your question: “Produce or Re-produce”. The fact that the image is Bayer Pattern, means that regardless of your bit depth, you are still missing 2/3rds of your initial data. So 12 bit or 16 bit is just more missing data. The 12-bit isn’t 12-bits of color. Its 4096 values. Those values could be 4096 “32-bit” pixels. Or 4096 “8-bit values”.
Once “Produced/Reproduced”, the color processing steps really change the way this original sensor image looks like, anyways. The process that is used to take a Bayer Pattern Image and convincingly creates an RGB image is simply amazing. The amount of applied science and creative mathematics is astounding.
Interestingly “FYI” , the human eye is about 12-bit, anything higher is visually imperceptible. Only VFX people find that the 14-16 bit data is really needed for their work.
Hope this helps.
Bob.
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
POBox 24124
Santa Barbara, CA, 93121
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
Actually, I want to correct myself… 🙂
Yes, the Alexa sensor does do 14 bit. Yes, the 12-bit ARI file will reproduce 16-bit data if the appropriate process is used to convert from 12-bit to 16-bit.bob.
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
POBox 24124
Santa Barbara, CA, 93121
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
The current 2880×2160 files that a D-21 generates are about 12.4Megs, if they are unpacked. There is a packing method that would drop it well under 10Megs. Codex and S.Two both provide this packed file format.
I can’t say what the best solution is for compressing the sensor data. But I will say this: There is a lot of R&D to be done in this area. Red’s patent is pretty specific to their camera, and the way it works with its Log space. There are many other ways to do compression.
I think that we will see others work on this. Perhaps someone will even to provide an “open” system for compression. (This is key.. as we don’t want to be forced to rely on a proprietary system, 30 years from now, of a company’s proprietary and secret format that no longer doesn’t exist.)
For now, ARRI has a great RAW solution that is very good for 99% of the shots a production uses and is very much in line with HD sized DPX files. (And 30 years from now, you can still open them and use them. No proprietary compression or encryption.)
bob..
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
POBox 24124
Santa Barbara, CA, 93121
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
Hi Bastiaan,
I can’t comment on the internal specifics of the camera. If ARRI wants to output a different file, its certainly up to them to make those changes.
However, regardless of what the sensor’s ability is, as of today you are still using a 12-bit file.
bob.
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
POBox 24124
Santa Barbara, CA, 93121
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
Hi Everyone,
(A bit of background.. I am the first “ARRIRAW Partner” that ARRI signed on. I have (and continue to be) a developer supporting the camera and their image formats. My Info is first hand.)
This information is already publicly available, but I will summarize it here:
– There is no compression. Period. No wavelet, DCT, etc. Just uncompressed, untouched, unmolested bayer pattern image data. *Truely* raw data. Not a compressed bayer image, as others would use.
– T-Link is a packing method to transmit the bayer data to a recording device. Think of HD-SDI as a “video specific” ethernet system. Not only does HD-SDI send video packets over its network, but it can be re-purposed to send data packets, too. In T-Link mode, the D-21 and Alexa send bayer data over the HD-SDI *AS DATA* — not as video.
– The D-21 and Alexa produces a 12-bit Bayer Sensor image which is sent to the recording device.
– There is no Audio support with ARRIRAW files. It is just bayer sensor data. Other means of recording the audio will have to be adopted. Consult with your recorder manufacturer. They may have a solution already.
– The Colorspaces supported after the image is processed, will depend upon the tools you use.
In general, any company that uses the ARRI SDK should get what ever the SDK offers. For example, you should get Rec709 and LogC. DCI P3 is also available. I imagine other colorspaces would be supported in the SDK in the future. If you had something specific that you needed, I would contact ARRI and put in a request.– ProRes that is recorded from an Alexa via the SxS card uses the very same ARRIRAW color processing engine. If an ARRIRAW image and a Rec709 ProRes movie are recorded at the same time, they should look pretty much identical, color wise. Naturally, the resolution and debayer quality will be different.
Hope this helps.
bob.
https://www.gluetools.comRobert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
POBox 24124
Santa Barbara, CA, 93121
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
I believe that Codex is also a ProRes Licensee. I can imagine that there will be some good things from them, before long.
A quick point about ARRIRAW vs. ProRes:
– ARRIRAW will let you change exposure, white point, have a greater dynamic range and assorted debayer algorithm choices. (No one debayer method is perfect for every type of shot.)– The Alexa ProRes file has its exposure, whitepoint, and debayer mode “baked in”. There is also only one debayer method available in the camera. ProRes is definitely quicker for those that find the shot is acceptable out of the camera. Lastly, the imagery is clamped to Rec709 video and Gamma ranges. You won’t get a Log output to ProRes, as ProRes is already Rec709.
Each of these avenues has its purpose.
If I see one problem with Post users, it will be that people will want “Log” on a ProRes file. It will be like asking why their Mazda Miata can’t haul large cargo trailer like a Mack Truck. One is designed for speed (and convenience), the other is designed for Maximum Dynamic Range.
Bob..
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
629 State St. Suite 220
Santa Barbara, CA, 93101
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
Something to consider:
Green Screen compositing with existing Digital Camera technology requires a fair bit of work after the shoot. Some people ran into problems with low-light subjects and trying to pull a clean key. Judging from what I have seen, this won’t be the case with the Alexa. Depending upon the shots that you have to take, the Alexa *could* save you man-hours as far a compositing is concerned.Naturally, there are tonnes of variables to take into account. But a tool that can deliver cleaner plates, means less time for an artist to do their compositing jobs.
Just a thought..
bob.
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
629 State St. Suite 220
Santa Barbara, CA, 93101
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998 -
So, if you are only converting the necessary R3Ds to DPX that are being used in your project, you would still have a project the same size as ARRIRAW.
🙂
What you describe sounds like a typical of a production. But as soon as you take your select-edit and covert it to DPX, you are using the same amount of space as your ARRIRAW select-edit. 2k RGB DPX is 10 to 12 megs, and 2k ARRIRAW is 9.5 Megs. The DPX frame has its color/EI levels and other info “Baked in”, where the ARRIRAW can still be reconfigured to look different. (Realtime, too, as the imagery isn’t compressed.)
Anyways, every facility has their own workflow. Yours is no exception. I don’t doubt that before long, you will find a sophisticated SAN system that is inexpensive for what it does. Disk Space is really cheap these days — and it is getting cheaper by the hour. I bought a used Apple 7TB X-Raid for $2000 USD – this is pretty amazing to me! I could network it between a handful of test systems and access the data. Its old and slow. But it gets the job done for a few thousand dollars. Not a production worthy setup, but it does allow me to simulate SAN environments.
I am really really curious to get some feedback. Drop me a note. I will show you what I am building.
bob..
Robert Monaghan, CEO
Glue Tools LLC
629 State St. Suite 220
Santa Barbara, CA, 93101
United Statestel: +1 805 456 7997
fax: +1 805 456 7998