Richard Crowley
1
COW Coin
Forum Replies Created
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[ryan elder] “Oh okay. Well it’s just that at 2 feet above the actors “
That is at the far end of the limits for most hyper-cardioids in dialog use (at least IMHO).
As I mentioned before, you can’t just put up a boom mic like you would put up a light, in a fixed, general position. A microphone is not a “general coverage” gadget. You must keep it as close to the actors as possible without dipping into the frame. And you must keep it aimed at whomever is speaking. And the boom operator should be familiar with the script and using good headphone monitoring to ensure “quality control”.[ryan elder] “I have to have the level gain dial turned to 90% about, and the volume dial at 90%, which I thought maybe was quite high, but is that normal?”
It is probably “normal” for amateur actors, long distances, and average mic preamps. It would certainly NOT be “normal” for big-budget feature film or prime-time television production.
Have you tried using the NTG-3 microphone in those conditions? If the reflective surfaces (ceiling, walls, table-top, floor, etc.) are far enough, you might be able to get away with using a full interference-tube “long shotgun” mic for an interior scene.
Have you resolved the open question about the -10dB pad on your microphone?
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
[ryan elder] “Oh okay. I ordered the mics from Long & McQuade.”
It’s hard to get good help. Chances are that whomever you spoke to is unfamiliar with the microphone. Alas, those sales-droids talk a good game, as if they know what they are talking about But never trust them without independent confirmation
[ryan elder] “I was told by other filmmakers that I should use a hypercardiod mic when booming indoors, and they said that the 4053b was a good hypercardioid for indoor shooting. Is that true though, or is the distance on it, not far enough? I’ve been using for a few years now and it seems to be working fine, unless I’m wrong?”
That was good advice The AT 4053b hyper-cardioid is well respected and widely used for booming dialog indoors. If you are getting poor recording levels, there could be several problems:
1) The -10dB pad is engaged. We still don’t know if this is a problem with your mic or not
2) You are trying to boom from a distance that is too far for the mic to pick up properly. I would be very uncomfortable booming at more than 50-60 cm (18-24 in) Microphones are not magic and amateurs frequently assume that they have better “reach” than they really do. Booming is not a casual “set and forget” activity. You need a talented boom operator who knows the script and is actively listening with good full-coverage headphones. And NOT “noise-cancelling” headphones or earbuds!
3) You are using a mixer/recorder/camcorder with low-average mic preamp performance. To really get superior gain and low noise, you can’t depend on a plastic pro-sumer gadget.
4) You are trying to record dialog from amateur actors who mumble and don’t know how to project properly.
5) One or more pieces of gear is damaged and not operating at its full potential. ANOTHER reason why you should play around with all your gear to get a feel for how it is supposed to work, so you can compare it to a situation that seems like something is wrong. You REALLY need to get better acquainted with your gear.———————————————————————————
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
[ryan elder] “Oh okay thanks! When I asked about a -10 db pad at the store, the person told me it was a separate component that I would have to order, but I guess not. Thanks!”
There ARE “inline” pads that you plug in between the microphone and the mic preamp. They will work with any microphone (or any XLR source). That is probably what the vendor was thinking of. If they didn’t know that there is a built-in pad on the microphone it rather indicates that they don’t know enough about pro audio gear to be a reliable source of advice. You have never revealed where you bought the microphone, but it is probably not an official Audio Technica dealer.
[ryan elder] “So the Rode NTG-3, doesn’t come with those options, does it make it the lesser mic to use in a lot of situations then?”
No, it does not make it a lesser microphone. The NTG3 is a “long shotgun” which is used almost exclusively for longer-distance applications like capturing dialog outdoors on the end of a boom pole. It is almost never the case where that kind of application requires any kind of padding. Typically you will need MORE gain, not LESS gain. OTOH, the AT hyper-cardioid mic is designed to be used in many applications where it may be subject to rather loud sound-pressure levels (SPL). So it is much more likely that if you have it stuck at the bell of a trumpet or something, you will likely need some padding to keep the mic from clipping even before it gets to the mic preamp.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
[ryan elder] “So I would use the -10 db pad to give me extra pre-amplication,
No. exactly the opposite. if you need more gain (which you seem to be asking about), then you do NOT want the -10dB pad engaged. You only need the -10dB pad when you are recording very loud sounds that would cause the microphone to clip otherwise.and use the other switch to cut down on low frequences such as background noise, like a furnace, etc. If I am understanding that right”
Correct.
Again, take time to experiment with your gear. Try the microphone with each of the switches in each position so that you can hear how they work.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
The switches are recessed inside the mic body. You must use something small and sharp (like a toothpick or the sharp end of a safety-pin) to move the slides toward the head or toward the foot (the XLR end) of the mic body.
This is one example of why you really need to spend some quality time with your gear., Do you have anyone in your neighborhood who is familiar with microphones? The switches are somewhat stiff (so they don’t move around during use), but don’t use excessive force that would damage the small delicate switches.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
[ryan elder] “Perhaps that is a switch to activate the -10 db, but I was never able to push the switch before. If it’s a switch, how do you move it, since it doesn’t seem to be able to be moved?”
It is not a “push” switch. It is a slide-switch. When you slide it “up” towards the head of the mic, it engages the 10 dB pad. And when you slide it “down” towards the XLR connector, it takes the pad out of the circuit.
This is the kind of thing you need to discover when you play around with all your gear “offline”. It may seem trivial, but in the heat of battle it could be a matter of win or lose.
In the photo you cited, there is ALSO a low-cut switch right next to it. WHen the switch is “up”, then it rolls off the low frequencies (like wind noise, etc.) And when it is “down” then it provides a flat frequency response down to its lower limit. Very handy if you are recording pipe organs with 32 foot pipes, or steam engines, or flamenco dancing on hardwood floors. Otherwise, probably better to leave the low-frequency rolloff switch “engaged” for normal dialog recording. Nobody’s voice goes that low. And taking low-frequency noise out of the recording after the fact could be near impossible if there is any intermodulation. THAT is why microphones have low-cut switches. So that the (usless) low frequencies don’t overwhelm the mic preamp and ruin what you are trying to record.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
[Robert Withers] “When you look for your SFX, remember you may get best results by layering/mixing a few individual SFX.”
Indeed. On YouTube there are many videos about SFX mixing. There are several for Lord of the Rings (LOTR), and one where the whole video was about sound mixing for one of the big battles (I don’t remember the name). But there were hundreds of enemy shooting arrows at our heroes. They had a special team just doing the arrow SFX and they said they over-layed over 100 separate SFX clips just for the arrow SFX stem. And other similar teams for producing the sounds of the warriors shouting, and perhaps another team for the different sounds of horses, rolling-stock, etc.
The point is that you rarely use just one (or even two or three) SFX clips. As Mr. Withers said, you will probably need to use several clips and combine them in a way that reproduces exactly what you want.
Fortunately, there are an increasing number of sources for SFX clips online, so it is getting easier to find things. And remember that many notable SFX in famous movies were created from scratch by the sound designers. So don’t be afraid to wander around with a microphone, recorder and headphones to capture various things that could be used in the final mix. One of my favorite examples is the sound of the light sabers in Star Wars. The sound designer waved his microphone around in the back of an old TV set to get that phasey, humming sound. Good stuff.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
Each of the separate elements (on-camera dialog, voice-over narration, sound-effects, Foley, sound from B-roll, etc.) should sound good when you listen to them separately. If you listen to the dialog track and you hear dead silence between clips, then you must fix that before moving on to the other tracks.
Once each of the tracks/stems sound good on their own, THEN you can go to the next step of mixing them together into a 2.0 stereo or 5.1 surround mixdown. The decision of where to put things in the 5.1 mix is very subjective and depends on the nature, style and mood of the production. That is something that would be difficult to offer advice for in a forum like this.
Editing each individual track (and stem) and mixing everything down are two separate steps. You can’t properly do the mixdown until each of the tracks and stems are good.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
If you are operating in an acoustically-unfriendly space like a gym then you are starting out at a disadvantage with a difficult situation.
And if your presenters won’t stand stock-still directly in front of the microphone, then you have the same problem that most of us have. Modern speakers often move around and there is really nothing we can do about it.
You need to get better “signal-to-noise” (SNR) from the microphone. If you are getting too much ambient (amplified) signal back into the microphone, then you will have feedback problems. If this is the main speaker, I would be VERY insistent on putting a wireless mic on the presenter. Preferably a “headset” microphone. Or a clip-on lav mic which wold not be as good as a headset mic.
Of course a wireless mic properly attached to the presenter wouldn’t be appropriate for brief speakers (like the person making announcements or introducing the main speaker). For that, you need a mic on the podium. But for the main presenter, clearly that isn’t working for you. If the speaker moves around there is no amount of money you can spend on a microphone that will fix that problem. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
[ryan elder] “Oh, sorry, what I meant was is that level of sensitivity good quality wise? Do they make for cinematic quality microphones based on those levels I mean.”
Yes, the AT4053b is well respected as a very good hyper-cardioid microphone for dialog pickup on a boom for interior use. It is not the very best (read: “most expensive”), but it is widely respected and used.
Rode is an up-and-coming maker of good microphones and is giving the “old school” companies a run for their money. The NTG3 is often favorably compared to the old-school brands and models.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.