[Ned Miller]

This is exactly why I do not deal with consumers. They don’t understand video, even for their own wedding. I have heard many stories like this from associates who do weddings and consumer events. Even if they mean nothing malicious they are Video Virgins.

However, since you are in the biz of dealing with consumers, I think you need to do everything you can to keep your Yelp, etc. posts 100% positive, even if it costs you. Besides, unless you have a close family member or friend who is an attorney you can’t afford to go up against them. Even if you’re in the right. As a small biz owner you have to ask yourself in moments like these “What the Best/Worst that can happen here?” Let’s forget best at the moment. The Worst thing that can happen to you, due to this damn interweb thingy Al Gore invented, is that you get a bad Yelp post. Kiss of Death to vendor services to the public. At this point forget about your time and profit, protect your online rep.

So put on a fake smile, meet with them, hold their hand and make them happy. Real happy…

Then start transitioning into my end of the pool where you don’t have to deal with clients like these. Plus you get to have your weekends back!

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

There are many instances I can think of when VU meters are moving and you have a false sense of security that the signal is being laid down somewhere but it is not. I recently owned the Panasonic AF100 for 4 years and if you shot variable speed, then decided to shoot 30 or 24, although the needles were moving NO AUDIO WAS BEING RECORDED. Until Panny came up with a firmware update. The forums were full of posts of shooters and soundmen whose reputation was besmirched. I got in the habit of making a note on bright orange tape and placed it on the camera.

And here’s a biggie because it’s usually the experienced soundmen who do this because they want to make their day easier. If we are shooting documentary style, especially in a crowd, the audio guys prefer not to be connected to the DP via cable and prefer to send the signal via wireless to the camera. OK I can understand that, especially if they are out of shape and can’t keep up with me. However, I have my hands full and don’t want to monitor audio. There have been several times, usually when they want to power down the receivers to save batteries like at lunch, and then we roll again. They are hearing great audio on their headsets, they see needles moving, yet unless I divide my attention and look for confirmation in the VF, there may be no audio being laid down. That has happened a couple of times. So now I try to figure out if the audio guy has a real reason to go wireless to me or is he just out of shape and can’t keep up.

Also the Sony Z1U in it’s hay day, the transport mechanism could stop pulling tape yet the red light would stay on in the VF. I could go on and on. Nowadays, if I have time, especially if I just met the audio guy or we’re using something new/rental/strange, I do a quick test and ask for a playback before the real deal. Especially with VIPs and celebs. But the problem Steve had is scary, could be major financial repercussions. Seems like the audio guy just had a brain fart that day. Also wonder how late he was up the night before? New born baby perhaps? Who knows…

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Well since you have a history with him and he’s a seasoned pro I guess it must be chalked up to a bad day. Happens sometimes. Sounds like a good client to have. Hope you can keep them.

Best of luck,

Ned

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

WARNING: Long Post

Hi Steve,

So sorry for your disaster. We all know what that feels like. I wanted to digest your post and think about it for a couple of days and train wrecks like this have come streaming back from my repressed memories like PTSD. I have some thoughts, questions, observations and a possible solution (creative not technical). Although I am mainly a DP who often produces I am usually in charge of hiring or at least recommending all the other crew members and services so I saw some red flags in your posts I’d like to get some clarification on. At first glance it seems that whatever drive the audio was being downloaded to ran out of space and that’s why the needles kept moving on VU meters but the red light disappeared, right?

You mention in Post 1 that: “Hired an audio guy to record multiple mics on his hardware“. When you say “his hardware” I’d like to know is that his laptop also and if so, why a laptop? Had he done this particular work flow before? I have hired audio guys to do this sort of gig and they do not use laptops. They used sophisticated digital multi-track mixer/recorders that they were extremely familiar with. Is this A1 100% an audio geek? Or is he a generalist? I ask because…

You mention in Post 3: “He was also manning camera 1”. Hmmm…..we all are having to deal with restricted budgets and need crew members to multi function but some people are better at that than others. I asked if he is a 100% audio tech because if you ask someone like that to “man the camera”, even if it’s a simple shot, you’re adding to their stress level, dividing their attention and asking for a mistake to happen, especially if he is on intercom headsets. Thankfully he wasn’t in a airplane cockpit. Since there were 8 of his mics involved I would think if I needed to scrimp somewhere it would not be in the audio area where he could easily overlook the lack of a red icon illustrating recording. Even if it was “right in front of him” he is distracted by operating the camera. I am assuming he is mainly an audio guy because he owns 8 mics but by having him “double”, that to me, at my advanced age with many battle scars, is a recipe for a FU to occur. The stress at live events, where there is no net, means everyone has to hyper-focus. Also, how old is he and how long has he been doing audio? I ask because even though he owns 8 mics he could have gotten an entire audio package as a graduation present from rich parents, I don’t know yet.

I don’t mean to be contrarian but depending on your answers to these questions would determine in my mind whether he was in an untenable position meaning: Was he hired for something above his competency level? Was it his laptop? Does he know the recording software very well? Was ANYONE ELSE using the laptop besides him to set up card downloads, etc.? Is he old and experienced enough to smoothly handle both tasks at a live event without a sweat? Most of my disasters have been in the audio area, often when I used a guy who was new to me, asked them to use my (or rental) audio gear, they were using something they weren’t familiar with. When they did screw up and it cost me money my solution was to have them not charge me the next number of days we worked together. If you have never used this guy before and know what he was capable of then he is not 100% to blame. You would have needed to hire someone you knew from previous experience could do the audio aspect while manning a camera. I have a stable of 5-8 regular audio guys, young to old, cheap to barely affordable. If I told them we have an 8 mic situation at a live event, going to 3 cameras, watch levels, manage media dumps…most all of them would push back when also asked to “man a camera”. A couple I know would definitely hang up on me. The young, starving, eager beavers will do anything I ask of them and then…F It Up.

So in sum, in terms of the technical, I do not yet feel the world should collapse on him although technically it fell within his domain. It all depends on the factors above. If he is young, didn’t record to a laptop before, was previously unknown to you, not highly experienced doing camera…I would have had a whiff of impending disaster a couple of days before the shoot. So got that off my chest, wasn’t even sure if I should mention it, but as a freelancer myself of 37 years I can relate to both sides having been put in untenable positions. But here’s my solution…

I do a lot of corporate gigs like the kind you described where they bring execs to retreats, or they bring in management consultants or motivational speakers to brainstorm, team building exercises, etc., where they break into small groups, have contests for solutions, etc. It’s always a PITA when they huddle around round tables and we’re expected to capture the eureka moment. You mentioned in Post 3 that you have on-camera mic audio which we all know sucks but at least you can hear what was said and you mentioned in Post 2 that they considered the audio the most important aspect. Why? Because what was said was what they need to know. So…

My mentor taught me never to raise a problem (and this is a disaster) with a client until you can present a solution, preferably several options. Even if the audio had been recorded we all know it wouldn’t have been great since it was, if I’m guessing correctly, each mic was in the middle of a table in a room with 8 tables, lots of people talking simultaneously, right? My solution would be to create a couple of short, jazzy videos as examples of your solution, perhaps even before you tell them about the audio train wreck. Use the video as background, quick cut, half tone, montage like b-roll and have moveable text cool graphic treatment of the salient sound bites you discern from camera mic audio as text. After all, the eureka moment “power thoughts” light bulbs going off over heads is probably what they wanted, right? If my experience is a guide each group or table would have had someone acting as scribe writing down all their great ideas/solutions and they will still exist somewhere. You said you have to communicate with them on Wednesday so you have two full days to start throwing some samples together. Go heavy with graphics but keep the faces. Perhaps use VO too. Make lemonade out of your lemons. Your solution may be better than what they had in mind, or at least spin it that way. Save you client’s butt.

Lastly, if I wanted to try to salvage the relationship for future business I would do my utmost to “protect” the person who hired me because when it hits the fan it is he or she who will be blamed, not you and this A1. After all, they hired you. So my two cents would be to forego any of your personal costs and planned profit. Just submit a much smaller invoice that covers your real costs of the other crew, gear rental. You worked for free. Steel yourself for the possibility of the project being “killed” in which case they may not want to pay anything and you can’t blame them. Lick your wounds, lessons learned.

All the best,

Ned

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Hello Evan,

I’m not sure if I missed something but did you say you are new to the biz? Recently a student? I ask because you are coming at cost estimating from that angle.

Much of my client base is health related, from hospitals, pharma, associations, etc. They do have money but they don’t like to be gouged, it’s very competitive nowadays and they often need to seek several bids to satisfy their purchasing department, thus driving down bids. As Mark says it’s best to avoid half day rates but clients who have just one talking head don’t understand why they should pay a full day so it’s best to find more to do that day. Also, a full day is considered 10 hours in the biz, not 8 as it was in the good old unionized days. What you can get for a project varies, unfortunately you have an intermediary between you and the paying client. They will take a big cut thus forcing your price down. It is always best to work directly for the final client but half a loaf is better than no loaf. Going forward always try to market to the final client so you don’t have to reduce your price.

As to editing, you may want to keep track of hours and how much you think you are worth hourly but the clients just care about the bottom line per video, perhaps with a range. It’s hard to quote by the hour because everyone has a different speed. Sometimes it’s best to ask the client what they wanted to spend or “keep it under”. Two reasons for that: 1) You don’t waste your time if they have too little budget, 2) They may give a figure that is higher than you would have charged!

So in sum regarding price, I’d say if you go out with an assistant for a one, 10 hr day shoot, edit for 3-4 days for the rough with a few back and forths of “reasonable revisions”, in today’s climate that is worth around $3500-$5000. Ten years ago we may have gotten 30-50% more but prices for videos have plummeted since then. Every now and then you stumble across clients who are not price sensitive but that is getting more rare. The higher up your contact is within the org the more budget you can get. Do not give a discount when promised quantity because that may not come through. Experienced clients always hold out that carrot as part of the negotiating process, I hear that all the time. Also, some videos are easy slam dunks and others are time sucking root canals, so you can’t guesstimate time involved based on your first one. As a small business owner you have to get in the mindset of “What’s the worst that can happen?”

Now as to production…you need to advance, especially on your interview audio and the framing of your subject. You do have a good b-roll style but the interviews are the core. I highly recommend you spend $25 and subscribe asap to https://www.lynda.com and go to video production tutorials, especially a NYU teacher named Anthony Q. Artis. Watch every one of his segments. He will explain everything including budgeting. I’ve been doing this every week for 35 years and even I learned a lot watching his segments.

Good luck

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Hey Greg,

I used to do a lot of those in the 80s & 90s and as the other posters mentioned, the technique was to do a click track, what someone called a metronome, loud enough for the extras to hear but not picked up by the leader’s headset mic. Also, the music should bury the click track. Someone would bring a small electronic keyboard that had a variable drum beat and hook speakers to both sides of the room.

But I want to give you a heads up: Unless your extras are fellow aerobics instructors they will get played out. Trust me. Regular people will tend to get a pained expression after awhile whereas you need either a neutral expression or perhaps a smile. I’ve DP’d jobs where the client was bringing in his regular gym clientele and that is not good enough for a video. Hollywood wouldn’t do it that way. You need tough, athletic people not regular customers. So, I would need to rearrange the out of shape extras in a way that I would shoot them from behind so we couldn’t see their faces. Screws up continuity. Yoga video jobs have the same issue: pained expressions. When you get into editing your client fixates on the faces that look like they are not having a good time. You want to then ask them, “So why did you invite him to be in the video?”

Everyone should bring a couple of identical shirts so you can swap out for when they get sweat puddles. Bring a couple of giant fans for creating a breeze between takes, you want people to stay on their marks. Oh, and bring lots of hair spray and scrunchies.

Good luck!

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

You described my life. I often start without up front money because I produce mainly for marketing departments that suddenly have a video need and they are running around with their hair on fire. They appreciate a vendor (I hate that word) who can run with the ball and save their ass. I equate it with taking the thorn out of the lion’s paw and they appreciate it, creates loyalty. So I will often bill 2/3rds as my first invoice and they try to rush it through. I tend to give slack to local clients who I feel will represent repeat business. One-offs, entrepreneurs and out-of-towners I don’t cut much slack. Hard costs such as airline tickets, out-of-pocket, studio rental, etc. those types of costs hurt and I want the money sooner rather than later if I can’t get it up front. If there is no up front money I put hard costs on my lowest interest credit card to delay payment, never American Express. 90% of the time the job is starting so fast it’s all verbal or a handshake. Many times the clients have felt obligated to rush payments through since I started without up front payment. It’s a great technique to get 100% of the money while you’re still doing post for them. It’s all about trust. Maybe it’s a Midwest thing?

However, when dealing with large companies and my client is “only mid-level”, that’s when the word Slow comes into play. We can only push our contact client so far against his Accounts Payable department because their hands are tied. Going up a DefCon level will cause animosity with the client. I try to live with that unless I have a feeling they will not pay at all, then it’s hard ball. My editor(s) will work with me on that, meaning he will also wait for the last portion. I do pay my production peeps within 30, I tend to pay my own labor and profit with the last payment.

My largest producing client is America’s largest bank. They are 90-120 days at the earliest due to byzantine paper work requirements, anti-fraud measures, etc. Their back office is actually farmed out to Mumbai (ugh). Been working for them for 20 years although recently they stopped doing videos. For this client my mantra to all (except the union talent) is, “I have good news and bad news. Good news: Got a great two day gig. Bad news: I will pay you when I get paid.” Since I use the same peeps over and over through the years they go with it. I will pay young folks, renters, etc. out of my own pocket but the big check folks will wait with me. We build in a little extra for the aggravation. In sum: push your pay outs back if you think your client will be slow paying. Have crew and suppliers who will work with you on that.

The problem we all face is the definition of “Done” is squishy. I do a lot of work for non-profits and associations where everything has to be committee’d to death. The ones that know me, that trust me, they usually will get that last check pre-approved and in the pipeline before the Done phase so it’s just missing the signature and a stamp. That’s very important: Get your contact to do all the pre-approval. Don’t have them wait for some honcho to say, “OK, done! I love it!” Then it could be another GD 30 days. I am in a unique situation because, besides producing, I am a freelance DP so smaller checks are always coming if to help my cash flow, so producing clients being somewhat late are not a threat unless it’s a monster size job. I also counsel the young ones (who will listen) that two freelance creative services people can not survive together, one has to have a “steady job”. I married a teacher.

As I look back on my 35 year career I remember many, many talented film & video people, more talented than I, who had to drop out of the biz because of the same reason: Intermittent Cash Flow. My mentor taught me that it’s better to have many small and medium size clients than a couple of big ones. I equate it with hitting singles and doubles, maybe the occasional home run.

Last thought: The first indication of a No Payer is a Slow Payer, 100% of the time, meaning: headed for bankruptcy, merger, messy divorce, etc. Every time.

Can you tell by the length of this post I have nothing to do today?

Good luck!

Ned

Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

I do not see AVCHD in their calculator:

https://www.digitalrebellion.com/webapps/video_calc.html

Or am I suppose to be looking at Pro Res?

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Best to do a search of this forum for similar posts. This topic has been discussed in great depth previously.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Hi Tiffany,

I am a freelance Chicago based cameraman and am certified by the American Guild of Court Videographers https://www.agcv.com and have done a lot of litigation support videos although I do not do depositions. What they need you to do is called a Settlement Video, no one wants to go to court because it’s expensive and they don’t know if they will win, so they use the videos as a threat and demand the opponent to settle. Several things:

First, they were foolish to hire someone who is not certified in doing this. It’s not that you have to be certified, it’s that you need to know the rules of evidence, etc. that you learn when you go through the AGCV or CLVS courses. Lots of things you can screw up which would make your video inadmissable or worse, help the opponent. As Mark said, people often say the wrong thing, and with these types of video no editing is allowed, so TURN OFF THE CAMERA MIC.

Of course a shorter version can be edited but…in a situation like this the other side is allowed to get an exact copy (called Discovery) of everything, meaning an unedited copy of what you shot. If someone says something stupid that can blow up in court.

As mentioned, you may have to make yourself available to testify but I doubt it, I never have, but you should establish what your hourly rate will be and don’t be cheap. As to a “Walk Through”, find out specifically what they need. Legal videos usually want to simulate the human POV meaning wide and if your client needs details do separate close ups. If the size of the thing matters have a ruler or yard stick in the shot. Shoot 1080 so still frames can be grabbed, that’s quite common, or upsell them on you also doing stills with a good DSLR.. If they literally mean a walk thru then you should do a Glide Cam or Stedicam so you don’t nauseate the people in court. What I do is have them pick areas and I do slow, wide pans on a tripod. Real slow.

In regards to what to charge, the legal industry is the only sector besides consumers who ask me what my hourly rate is. Ugh. That’s because their only exposure to video is usually depositions which charge by the hour, usually with a two or three hour minimum. Since they did not seek out a certified videographer that implies they don’t use video. Also, they will probably need you to make WMVs (they’re a PC crowd) for them, perhaps edit a short version so ask if that is part of the price.

If you are in a larger metropolitan area, and you are working for a decent size law firm rather than a single lawyer, I’d say a half day should be at least $500 plus mileage and a full day $950 or so. Plaintiff’s attorneys are cheap because usually there is no budget, they hope to make a killing if they win. So get a check at the end of the shoot day or when you deliver the media files because it is absolutely impossible to collect from a lawyer who doesn’t want to pay. The nice thing about legal videos is they’d rather pay a little more for someone “who won’t screw up”.

So in sum, those are the prices I would consider average. Although it seems like a simple walk through, since a lot is riding on it, research how to do a settlement video, the rules. More complex than it appears.

Best,

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com