[Ned Miller]

I respectfully disagree. That was the method I was taught many, many years ago but now the video producing scene is hyper competitive and video has become a commodity. A month doesn’t go by where I don’t get to bid on low to high budget projects and I win some, lose more. When approached for our video services all inquiries break down into one of two categories:

1) The prospect asks you what you would charge for the whole thing based on the parameters they provide which can be vague and sketchy.
2) The prospect tells you what they have to spend max and asks if you can do it for that amount.

They usually have an idea as to their budget but sometimes they’re just “curious” as to what a video would cost because they are video virgins, but if it’s corporate they most likely have been tasked to outsource the video “and not go over X amount of dollars.” It’s always best if somehow you can find out what that amount is and come in right below it.

Often there is “project creep” where the scope enlarges and you must make it clear when you’re dealing with the bottom budget clients what your limits are. I just lost $80 because I forgot to bill for one stock footage shot that wasn’t in the estimate so I didn’t remember to tack it on. That $80 represents a decent restaurant dinner with the wife.

As to hourly, I think only a fool would contract services by the hour unless they were sitting side-by-side with the editor. I say this as one who used to have to supervise the edit sessions, often at post houses or when the gear became portable and affordable, in freelance editors’ living rooms and small extra bedrooms. I can assure you that all editors are not the same speed, same with DPs. It may be of interest to learn what the person thinks they’re worth by the hour, as a curiosity. However, if you are the client you don’t want to hire a producer or prod co without a good idea as to the “not to exceed” figure is.

If you subscribe to the tutorial service https://www.lynda.com for $25 a month there’s a producer/professor: Anthony Q. Artis, he has a course that is great on budgeting but it is for far more complex projects than this. Also, Walter Biscardi has a podcast above:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/17/880268

In sum, the hospital that has asked you “how much”, they don’t care what you are by the hour. As Mark says, that can be a starting point for you to figure out if it is a profitable endeavor. Put yourself in their shoes, if they aren’t virgins then they have been approached for video services and have an idea as to what this should cost. If you get a whiff that they are shopping it out for three bids, which many orgs have to do by policy, then it means you have to be in the range of your market’s competitors, and in the Chicago area it would be hard to get them past the $2000 range due to extreme competition. You have to be very fast, own your own gear and able to work solo in order to make this type of gig profitable, which I think will take 1.5 days of one’s time.

And that’s how I do it. I also make sure it won’t conflict with some other gig that’s more profitable in terms of schedule.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com

[Ned Miller]

I’ve done many of these for healthcare facilities. You don’t charge by the finished minute, rather, you charge just below what you think they have in mind as their max.

That looked like they did it themselves or someone just a smidge above amateur produced it. In the US it would be difficult to charge more than $2000 for something like that. Their audio was atrocious and I’m sure you could do a much better job just hanging a boom over them. So, figure a one man band half day shoot, they supply any narrator which you record at the time, and a one day edit with a couple of back and forth revisions.

The only thing positive I can say about about bidding on, being awarded and then producing a couple of these types of videos is:

1) You can then shop them around as samples to bigger hospitals with bigger budgets and perhaps break into them.

2) At the hospital you produce these for you then become known and can worm your way into various departments and bid on their videos.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Well, I’m learning that Adwords is much more expensive than they tell you at the beginning! I’m finding that there are very deep pocket competitors who are bidding the clicks up to way past what they are worth. It reminds me of Ebay, when you bid on something at a good price but idiots who don’t know what it’s worth bid it up automatically past what is a good deal. Also, I just got this in today. It is a result of my brochure arriving in the mail after meeting Tom at a networking meeting of local PR pros. Very Old School:

Hello Ned:

My colleague Tom XXXX passed over your information to me to do possible video for us at our XXXX office. I was wondering if you had time to chat about filming some employee testimonials at our office there. There will be 3 individuals that will be doing a question and answer type testimonial. Just need to be filmed documentary style. No editing needed. Can you provide a cost estimate for that? I will also give you a call later today to discuss.

So after a month or so I think I will go back to Old School techniques. Adwords requires constant monitoring, tweaking and throwing money at it. If a student clicks your ad to send in their resume, that can cost $8.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

I hate crowd sourcing, it’s really hurt the video biz. However….I figured if you can’t beat them, join them. That’s the way all creative services are going when someone is looking for a source to do a project and they don’t have a clue. A couple of years ago I found a great graphic artist out east who did my brochure based on my back of the napkin sketches and a few revisions back and forth. I’m very happy with it and use it as a leave behind or mail to prospects. It’s a slim jim self mailer although I put them in evelopes so they arrive looking nice. Very important that it is under one ounce with a business card so keep that uppermost in mind.

Most pros will want to use the software programs they are most familiar with so be prepared they may need to start over. If you are interested in my guy’s name you can PM me.

Lastly, it’s best if you have the graphic artist be in charge of the printing even if it costs a little more. My experience has been if there’s any problem with the printing, such as the fold, you become a ping pong ball between the artists and the printer.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Thanks Rich. I know, I know, I know….my website is very dated for several reasons, the first being my “web guy” is no longer around so I’d have to start from scratch. Might as well since we now have to optimize for mobile. It’s even difficult posting a new photo so I think I will teach myself. However, I have to weigh that against how much biz comes in through the web. I prefer repeat clients and referrals so the effort to work the web is minimal except when I hit a slow period and panic. That’s when I start the process of a new site but then I get busy again, for weeks or months, and that goes to the back burner.

As to searches, the whole reason I wanted to try the Adwords is the word or term “Videographer”, wow, it’s the realm of the wedding crowd now and there are so many of them. The DSLR revolution allowed a zillion of them to enter the biz so if you’re needing a Videographer you have to weed through pages of wedding shooters.

Smart folks in the biz will go to Production Hub, Mandy’s, IL Film Office, Chicago Creative Directory, etc. but if they search for a guy like me I am now very hard to find because of the wedding folks. As to samples on my website, I have proof that is detrimental, perhaps I will start a new thread to see if people believe me, but I prefer to field an inquiry and then send them EXACTLY what they have in mind. Works well. I can’t keep up with all my new work adding it plus many of my clients are proprietary or I don’t want my competitors to know who they are or they are TV shows and it’s impossible to get a great copy if they are willing to give any at all. So, I have found that they call or email asking to see examples and I send them something right on the money and I get the gig that way.

It’s more complicated than that but suffice it to say that over the years when I have had an Under Construction sign on the samples page, they contact me and that get’s me the opportunity of talking to them or emailing, thus the ability to “sell”, and I send the perfect example.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Stop! Don’t do anything yet. The above posts offer great advice, exactly what I would say and here’s some more .2¢:

I would need to know what city you are in and the rental resources to know the viability of renting vs owning, but you can also rent from private owners, which is my first choice because the gear is treated better and the pick up/drop off hours are more convenient, but…

I can’t address the post gear however, I often advise clients and newbies as to production gear. First off, do you presently have a van or large SUV to transport? As to your list, the only usable item I saw for a start up was the Rode. As mentioned the Kinos are overkill. They are very useful when you need an even flat light over a wider area such as doing green screen but otherwise are expensive for what they do plus they take up a LOT of cubic inches once in their cases, which relates to the issue of the vehicle. The most important thing I can impress upon you is that you need to have a client base that desires the particular package you plan to put together BEFORE you buy the gear. There is no such thing as “Build it and they will come” in the vid biz. I have been freelance for 35 years and have seen many dozens of prod cos large and small go under. So…the purchase of gear that is not consistently billable plus fixed expenses such as office rental, insurance payments, etc. will drag you under when there is a cash flow crunch.

If I have not yet convinced you that buying gear is not wise during the start up process, then continue reading. IF you have the money and gear addiction that compels you to own, the first rule to consider is: Is what I am buying going to be cheaper to own than renting? Most likely not. Certain items are, the ones that last forever, which is most everything besides camera bodies. I advise young wannabe DPs to put their money in a high quality tripod, lights, monitor and audio after having the bedrock, which is the vehicle. Rent cameras and lenses because they are changing so fast they often don’t pay for themselves before the next new thing comes along. Since you propose producing biopix and corp comm, what you really need is what I call a “Talking Heads & The Usual B-Roll Kit”.

We don’t know anything about your background, if you have a client base, perhaps this $9K is a graduation present? etc…but when you say “start up”, that’s a very dangerous thing because right now I wouldn’t suggest anyone enter the biz now. We have had such growth in video, the graph looks like a hockey stick, but us older folks have niches and client bases, the newbies are suffering unless they grab a good client. Right now the prices for video are rock bottom, it’s a buyer’s market. It’s gotten to be a commodity and there’s crowd sourcing- a race to the bottom in terms of competitive bidding to the point no one can charge a premium. Any chimp that is somewhat technical and creative can now do video. So you’re starting in a biz that would be rejected in any MBA class doing an exercise as to as to what hot industry to get into.

So in sum, use that $ for marketing, establishing a solid, consistent, client base. Do a REAL business plan that has no delusions, keep a lot of money in reserve. Murphy’s Law is the one constant. Hope is not a strategy. That $9K gear list…real red flag, unless that was just for gear and there’s another $20-$30 for the rest? Gear is meaningless without the paying clients.

Good luck,

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

In the Chicago area, which is all I know, the agents tack on their comish after stating the talent’s rate, as in +20%, never inclusive.

I have used Craigslist to cast the last few years although 70% of responses are inappropriate. It seems obvious that most Chicago talent peruses CL every day, not sitting by the phone waiting for their agent to call. Many union actors use what’s called Financial Core, I believe it’s a legal shelter that allows them to work as an independent contractor and avoid all the union issues. I refuse to hire union for a number of reasons.

Also, never rely on a headshot, ask them to send you a current photo, as in today.

And if you ever need VO try Voices123.com

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

+1 what Todd said but need to add:

I send them my release form a few days ahead of time, whether they are on their own or with an agency, to make sure everything is clear. I have had several occasions when on location the talent said, “My agent said not to sign anything until they see it.” and problems of miscomm inevitably occurred. So nowadays I want them to see my wording, which I have cut and pasted from more legally astute prod cos than myself, that we mean a Total Royalty Free Buy Out.

I get them to sign the release when they arrive, not at the end of the day. I also, always, have a Plan B, meaning knowing the runner up is available. Lastly, when an agent asks how the video will be used it’s best to say you don’t know for certain but assume the client will use it “everywhere”. The only savings is if you have an industrial client that never does broadcast, then I would tell them non-broadcast for a cheaper rate. I did bid on a giant project lately where they will sell DVDs and that is in it’s own category which is rare. Sometimes the client will have a pro still shooter who will work alongside me for brochures/print ads and that can also bump up the rates.

But basically do what Todd says and get them to agree to your release form wording a couple of days before the gig to thwart any Murphy’s Law.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

My first thought was that you hit 4 when you told your printer to print the attachment. How could they send out so many questions? I thought only the Dr. Phil Show did that…

I shot about 30 of the Steven Spielberg Holocaust testimonials for a project called Shoah and we did have over 3 hour interviews with people in their 90’s. But hey, 90 is the new 70! I found it was best to do them as early in the morning as possible and keep the key light as low in intensity as possible. Frequent breaks, let them take a nap. You should prioritize the questions in case they poop out but what I found surprising is that they can’t tell you what they had for breakfast or the name of their grand kids but they have almost a total recall from 70 years ago, although they get the stories mixed up.

Some are sprightly and will be able to do it but I have found at that age they don’t get the concept of incorporating the question within the answer. As an option I think you should mic yourself, just in case the editor needs your voice to set up their answer.

Please let us know how it went. BTW, on one Spielberg gig they called me at the last minute on a Sunday morning and said a man in his 90’s was in a hospice bed in his son’s house and finally agreed to talk about his experience as a partisan in the woods. He was on a ventilator so could only do a few words at a time. It was a 90 minute drive and they said he may die before I got there and to steel myself that he may die on camera while I was rolling. I did it and it was worth it!

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Ned Miller]

Todd,

I just did a search on LinkedIn for Groups and I typed Digital Signage. Many Groups came up. Seems like two dozen. Have her join several, it may take a couple of days to be admitted as a member, some are instant. Then post her technical questions and a bunch or pros will respond. Similar to CC. Some will offer their services for a consulting fee but there’s many gurus who will advise for free.

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com