Nathaniel Cooper
Forum Replies Created
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Could be interesting. In my opinion less from the ‘network’ side of things and more from the Final Cut Pro side of things.
There are tons of great storage options out there. Xsan’s popularity is simply because it’s apple branded.
Truth be told, it’s just an OEM of the Stornext file system. I’m guessing if the rumors are true then an enterprise storage company will actually spend some money to try and get into the Apple world for real. Many have flirted with the idea and none have commited yet. Possibly a media company could do it as well, maybe AJA or someone, but that could only happen if the enterprise IT companies don’t want to spend the cash. Point being Apple doesn’t own Xsan they just OEM Stornext.
That being said, if Apple doesn’t want to support storage with FCP, then the chances of them ever supporting higher end features like project sharing are what’s really at stake.
Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
office: 949.861.2725
cell: 949.375.2738I support:
Xsan
MXFserver
Promax ShareMAX
EVO/SANmp
EditShare
MetaSAN
Small Tree
NAS solutions -
It seems like it boils down to 2 questions:
1. Can it be done?
2. Should I do it?We are all pretty sure, it can be done, you just need the right disks mentioned in other replies.
There is some contention as to if you should do it. My opinion is that you should use the new Mac Pro as your server. As it sounds like you are expecting it to host out 3 workstations editing ProRes all at the same time. If it were my system I’d put the horsepower in the server over an individual workstation, since it will be the core of your facilities editing.
That being said, one of the things we all love about macs is how easy it is to change a set up. You should be able to set up both workstations, use something like Carbon Copy Cloner (https://www.bombich.com) and clone both OS installs to an external drive (just partition it twice and you can get them both on the same drive). Try the set up out for a week, then swap the OS’s and swap the machines. Try that set up for a week and stick with whatever makes you happier.
Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
office: 949.861.2725
cell: 949.375.2738I support:
Xsan
MXFserver
Promax ShareMAX
EVO/SANmp
EditShare
MetaSAN
Small Tree
NAS solutions -
I totally agree with Steve.
If you’re going to have a bottle neck let it slow down one workstation, not the whole network.
Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
office: 949.861.2725
cell: 949.375.2738I support:
Xsan
MXFserver
Promax ShareMAX
EVO/SANmp
EditShare
MetaSAN
Small Tree
NAS solutions -
Hey Bob,
Let’s not get bogged down in schematics (or is it semantics? I can never rember…)
When I say JMR is not a complete solution, I mean exactly what you are pointing out, you must add SAN software, switches, fibre cards, etc. all of which JMR don’t make.
Same with small tree, Small Tree is awesome hardware, that I personally incorporate with Promax ShareMAX just as you incorpoorate it with Maxx Digital Final Share. Traditionally ST components are implemented through VARs to be part of a complete solution.
I suppose the same could be said about Xsan, as it’s just a software component.
Wait… what do you mean complete solution?!?
nate cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
office: 949.861.2725
cell: 949.375.2738I support:
Xsan
MXFserver
Promax ShareMAX
EVO/SANmp
EditShare
MetaSAN
Small Tree
NAS solutions -
Hey Justin,
One thing to note about file-locking systems. They will not give Final Cut Pro the ability to editing on the same project file at the same time. Both volume-locking and file-locking SAN/NAS will all you to access the same media files, however, if your goal is to edit the same project file at the same time a file-locking system will not enable that.
Not trying to steer you away from file locking, I just know this is something that a lot of people (rightly) assume. File and volume both have their ups and downs in any environment.
Xsan does not require Promise, tons of people use Active and many other arrays. Don’t call apple support if you are using anything other than Promise. But honestly, you are way better off working with one of the many good resellers in town to support you, just be sure to buy from the reseller you want supporting you.
Xsan – If you want file-locking I’d go this route, however it’s pricy and support heavy
SNS – Solid systems (I worked for them for years) easy to maintain, mostly volume based solutions, mixes iSCSI and Fibre, does have 10GbE options
Facilis – Solid systems, however don’t believe the file lock hype, it’s been ‘out’ for a year now and it still doesn’t work very well. They do mix gigE and Fibre which is awesome, and I do know they are fixing their file level issues.
JMR – Good hardware, not a complete solution
Small Tree – Good hardware, not a complete solutionI’d go fibre over ethernet, just because a lot more people actually have it working. Xsan’s are awesome, but are a lot of support. SNS and Facilis are both great products.
The best move for you depends on what you value. My favorite 2 out of what you mentioned are Xsan and SNS. If you need file locking then go Xsan, but you should really find Caspian at SNS and talk to him about volume-locking workflows, he’s brilliant with that stuff. The people I’ve seen take his advice are happy happy people.
Best of luck and congrats on the TruTV series!
Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
office: 949.861.2725
cell: 949.375.2738I support:
Xsan
MXFserver
Promax ShareMAX
EVO/SANmp
EditShare
MetaSAN
Small Tree
NAS solutions -
Hey Mike,
Don’t worry about feeling overwhelmed, there is a lot of info out there and every SAN set up is different. I’ve been doing SANs for 9 years and I still have never seen the same set up twice.
2 Mac Pros running SD footage is a pretty low requirement. There may be options under $12k depending on what codecs you are using, how much storage you need and how much horsepower you need behind the storage.
If you want I’m happy to spend a few minutes working with you to get a spec and can give you a good-better-best options with the pros and cons of each.
Good luck!
Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
949.375.2738 -
Hey Christopher,
In regards to your questions:
1. XSAN will not work with this hardware. MetaLAN is likely not needed, if you use gigE and a NAS set up like your talking about you can probably just use the built in AFP sharing features in the Xserve.
2. FC Server is a completely separate/independant product from Xsan/MetaLAN. In theory you can use FC server with a set up like your talking about, but it’s VERY scetchy without a dedciated server. I would stay away from the idea of putting FC Server on the same gige network as your production network.
Give me a buzz if you’d like to talk about specifics on what you can and cannot do with this type of set up.
Good luck!
Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
949.375.2738 -
Hey Bruce,
Better all depends on what the clients needs are. Spending $20k you can get anything from a NAS (like you have talked about) to an all fibre SAN with SANmp/MetaSAN type software.
Caspian mentioned SNS’s EVO storage, which is a solid platform and mixes gigE and Fibre and can get in at the $20k mark.
I’m happy to spec some of this out for you and talk about the advantages/disadvantages of each. Give me a call when you get a second.
Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
949.375.2738 -
Hey Binh,
There are a few options on the market, there a more NAS based set ups like you have. Then true SANs with Fibre Channel and/or iSCSI.
I’d be happy to help you spec out a system. My company has been designing and supporting these systems for the last 10 years. We have options for FC, iSCSI and NAS.
Feel free to give me a ring or an email. Also if you’re at NAB we’ll be at booth SL8922.
Good luck!
Nathaniel Cooper
Studio Network Solutions
818 209 1331
ncooper@studionetworksolutions.com -
Eric,
As far as Ethernet networks go, unless your network is iSCSI based with a volume locking SAN software, Pro Tools will not recognize it as a valid audio drive.
Do not try the RAID 0 for Pro Tools. Any software striped RAID cannot be written to or read from by PT. Digidesign is very picky about what you can use for storage. Single LUN (hardware RAID, single drives, or multiple unstriped drives) initialized as HFS+ is what you need to present to PT.
Network wise, I’m very confident in saying my company is the go to company for networks with Pro Tools (https://www.studionetworksolutions.com/) Other than that, push pull to your network use locally attached, non-striped storage, and always run your back ups.
Nathaniel Cooper
Studio Network Solutions
818 209 1331