Macpro Server

[Bob Zelin]

I bought the new (xServe replacement) MacPro Server to build a SAN setup (3 clients) – but am considering swapping it for a 2008 MacPro, in order to use the new faster machine for a workstation, and the older machine as a Server. Does it sound reasonable?

REPLY -I do this all the time. Buy a NEW HARD DRIVE, and do a clean install on a NEW hard drive that you have partitioned GUID with the Disk Utility. Then install OS-X Server. It works perfectly.

Problem is that it seems impossible to install ordinary SnowLeopard on the server.

REPLY – it works fine. Are you trying to overwrite an operating system. Use Disk Utility and REPARTITION THE DRIVE (1 partition GUID).

I thought the machine was identical to the MacPro workstation – but maybe there is a limitation on the motherboard that doesn’t allow to install non-server software?

REPLY – there is no limitation – it’s the same machine. Either erase your drive, or get a NEW HARD DRIVE (60 bucks) and reinstall the OS.

Bob Zelin

[Steve Modica]

[Morten Ranmar] “I bought the new (xServe replacement) MacPro Server to build a SAN setup (3 clients) – but am considering swapping it for a 2008 MacPro, in order to use the new faster machine for a workstation, and the older machine as a Server. Does it sound reasonable?”

I wouldn’t do this. The Mac Pro’s today have an integrated memory controller. It’s something like 4X faster than the pre-nehelam systems.
In the networking world, memory bandwidth is everything. All packets get memcopied.
The upshot is an “old” mac pro might sustain 30MB/sec bidirectional on a render, whereas the “new” Nehelams will do about 60MB/sec bi directional.
The result is you beat the heck out of the gigabit port and it has to flowcontrol a lot.
If you are going to create a congestion point, create it on the clients.

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications

[Nathaniel Cooper]

I totally agree with Steve.

If you’re going to have a bottle neck let it slow down one workstation, not the whole network.

Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
office: 949.861.2725
cell: 949.375.2738

I support:
Xsan
MXFserver
Promax ShareMAX
EVO/SANmp
EditShare
MetaSAN
Small Tree
NAS solutions

[Bob Zelin]

Morten writes –
Problem is that it seems impossible to install ordinary SnowLeopard on the server. I thought the machine was identical to the MacPro workstation – but maybe there is a limitation on the motherboard that doesn’t allow to install non-server software?

REPLY – this was Morten’s original question, to which I properly responded. It’s not impossible to install ordinary Snow Leopard on the machine. Repartition the drive, or put in a new hard drive, and use that. It will work fine.

As far as creating the “bottleneck”, I totally disagree with the super smart guys that have responded to you. The typical user is not using the Mac server as a high speed server. You are doing normal file serving (possibly with regular ethernet), and things like FCP can’t take advantage of the faster machines. If you have a new 12 core (for example), you can make this a workstation, where you do DEDICATED LOCAL WORK with Adobe CS5 After effects (for example) and get a hi performance local machine, that you will “occationally” send files to the “old dog” file server from 2008.

Bob Zelin

[Steve Modica]

[Bob Zelin] “As far as creating the “bottleneck”, I totally disagree with the super smart guys that have responded to you. The typical user is not using the Mac server as a high speed server. You are doing normal file serving (possibly with regular ethernet), and things like FCP can’t take advantage of the faster machines. If you have a new 12 core (for example), you can make this a workstation, where you do DEDICATED LOCAL WORK with Adobe CS5 After effects (for example) and get a hi performance local machine, that you will “occationally” send files to the “old dog” file server from 2008.”

If what Bob says is true (that this is not going to be used for editing in place) then I agree. You can use the slower machine.
However, people drag and drop all the time and if they do it in such a way that the data flows through the faster client, it will botteneck the server in a bad way. (It’ll hit other people on the network too)

Steve Modica
CTO, Small Tree Communications

[Morten]

Thanks for the advice from both sides. Maybe I should elaborate a little on how I plan to use the Server:

Server will be equipped with 2 x 2TB drives in Raid1 partition for project files, and a X-Raid connected through Fibre channel for video files. 3 clients will be directly connected to a 6-port Small Tree 1Gb ethernet card. Apart from file-sharing the server will be used to drive a Farmers Wife project database.

The clients will edit with ProRes files in Final Cut Pro, and do compositing with After Effects. Right now the clients are 1 PowerMac G5, and 2 MacPro 2008, and the brand new server is a 8-core MacPro Server 2010.

I have tried to install regular Snoe Leopard on a clean harddisk on the Server machine, but it seems the installer will not work – just stops on a gray screen with an Apple logo. My supplier told me that Apple did in fact change the specs of the MacPro Server, so it is not just a regular MacPro…?

– No Parking Production –

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Server w. X-Raid

[Bob Zelin]

Morton writes –
Server will be equipped with 2 x 2TB drives in Raid1 partition for project files, and a X-Raid connected through Fibre channel for video files. 3 clients will be directly connected to a 6-port Small Tree 1Gb ethernet card. Apart from file-sharing the server will be used to drive a Farmers Wife project database.

The clients will edit with ProRes files in Final Cut Pro, and do compositing with After Effects. Right now the clients are 1 PowerMac G5, and 2 MacPro 2008, and the brand new server is a 8-core MacPro Server 2010.

REPLY – don’t hold your breath on the compositing with After Effects. Some people are lucky, some are not (my clients are usually not). For LONG renders, your single port ethenet connection will choke. For regular ProRes editing, this will work perfectly.
Is there a way around this – sure there is – contact me privately or Small Tree privately, and you can pay to have this setup.

I have tried to install regular Snoe Leopard on a clean harddisk on the Server machine, but it seems the installer will not work – just stops on a gray screen with an Apple logo.

REPLY – I bet you a beer that you do not have a licensed $29 copy of Snow Leopard, and that you are using a restore disk from another MAC Pro that had Snow Leopard on it. The Apple Store sells OS-X Snow Leopard for $29. Buy it, and you will have no issues.

My supplier told me that Apple did in fact change the specs of the MacPro Server, so it is not just a regular MacPro…?

REPLY – I have been wrong plenty of times, and I sure could be wrong here again, but your Mac Pro is a MAC PRO – use the correct disks (not a restore disk from another MAC Pro) and you will have no issues.

Bob Zelin

[David Gagne]

If you’re trying to install Snow Leopard using the disk from your older mac pros — that won’t work. The disks are coded to be installed on specific hardware. If you go out and pay $30 for a retail disk, that will probably work.

Depending on what the server will be responsible for, it may or may not make sense to use the older one as the server… what kind of traffic will this server see?

[Nathaniel Cooper]

It seems like it boils down to 2 questions:

1. Can it be done?
2. Should I do it?

We are all pretty sure, it can be done, you just need the right disks mentioned in other replies.

There is some contention as to if you should do it. My opinion is that you should use the new Mac Pro as your server. As it sounds like you are expecting it to host out 3 workstations editing ProRes all at the same time. If it were my system I’d put the horsepower in the server over an individual workstation, since it will be the core of your facilities editing.

That being said, one of the things we all love about macs is how easy it is to change a set up. You should be able to set up both workstations, use something like Carbon Copy Cloner (https://www.bombich.com) and clone both OS installs to an external drive (just partition it twice and you can get them both on the same drive). Try the set up out for a week, then swap the OS’s and swap the machines. Try that set up for a week and stick with whatever makes you happier.

Nate Cooper
nate.cooper@promax.com
office: 949.861.2725
cell: 949.375.2738

I support:
Xsan
MXFserver
Promax ShareMAX
EVO/SANmp
EditShare
MetaSAN
Small Tree
NAS solutions

[Morten]

BOB ZELIN WROTE – don’t hold your breath on the compositing with After Effects. Some people are lucky, some are not (my clients are usually not). For LONG renders, your single port ethenet connection will choke. For regular ProRes editing, this will work perfectly.

Could I not install an extra ethernet card in the clients, and connect each via 2 ethernet cables to the 6-port Small Tree card, and get higher throughput?

BOB ZELIN WROTE – I bet you a beer that you do not have a licensed $29 copy of Snow Leopard, and that you are using a restore disk from another MAC Pro that had Snow Leopard on it. The Apple Store sells OS-X Snow Leopard for $29. Buy it, and you will have no issues.

I have actually tried to install Snow Leopard from a Mac Box set (family pack), which has worked fine on the 2008 workstations, and my Macbook Pro. So there must be something else wrong.

Anyway the arguments for keeping the new powerful Mac as a capable server have convinced me to do that, and I will start saving up to exchange the G5 with the next generation MacPro for compositing ; )

– No Parking Production –

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Server w. X-Raid