[Moira Elefson]

Ok – So this will probably be the last post on this thread ha. I’ve been browsing over CC for a long time now and will start to post around as I’ve been interested in many of the other topics, wanting to somewhat bury this thread, and after having received so much help from this post.

The update – without getting into details and telling a super long story, here is the conclusion: I went in for the meeting with my boss and we spoke for almost two hours. I receive what additional compensation they were able to offer me and my boss explained to me the whole process and told me a lot about how the business worked. I learned quite a lot and came out of the meeting with a really good understanding of what I need to do. He mentioned that there are other things that he is trying to do for me and while the compensation increase I received was very good, it was percent-based and resulted in a not-so-adequate raise overall (compared to fair-market value) since my base compensation is so low. I do feel it’s in my best interest to stick around and see how the future plans pan that my boss talked about pan out.

I really like working here and have to hold on just a bit longer. He mentioned that there may be a lot of personnel moving-around going on soon and more recently I’ve heard that I may be transferred to Marketing. Currently I work in some obscure division under the Tech. Communications group. Several other co-workers have suggested that the move to marketing (more specifically working under the new head of marketing) would be a smart move. I would have a new poss so I’m afraid that I’ll just be transferred over and have to start all over with the compensation negotiation. There may be a job posting put up that I would have to request transfer into in which case the new posting could have a (assuming-ly) higher pay-grade. That would be the best case scenario… unless the posting is specifically put up aimed at me and the compensation is just based (again) on what I’m making now but a bit higher. Anywho, we’ll see what happens. I may or may not post another update in this thread but I do plan to contribute/post around CC.

[Moira Elefson]

Just Thought I would post a quick update, since everyone took the time to give me loads of good advice.

It’s now been almost a month and a half, I turned my proposal (without any numbers of course) into my boss 11 days ago and am waiting to hear back on it. Today I will ask my supervisor if I can follow up/inquire about the progress. It’s really unfortunate that this takes so long, but then again my boss is very busy and he manages a technical staff (with the exception of myself).

Ok wow, scratch everything! I just got an e-mail while writing this and it looks like I have a ‘job proposal follow’ up at 1pm! I’m suddenly very nervous. I should start preparing some thoughts and try to calm myself before the meeting.

Thanks again for all the help and I’ll be sure to post another update.

[Moira Elefson]

I know it’s really hard, and if I don’t get any – I completely understand why – but does anyone have any idea what might be “fair” for my position? Take into account that yes, I will make less than a non-corporate peer, and also take into account that I’m located in Pittsburgh.

Would $40-$45K be way to much? I remember reading somewhere that some entry-level designers were getting about $35K average.

[Moira Elefson]

The PS Google thing… Are you being specific – as in there is something bad you guys found when google-ing me?!

I tried it, have several times in the past, but again today from seeing your post. This whole thread came right up… That could be bad eh?

Also – I wanted to say Thanks to everyone for first
– reading my huge original post.
and second – taking the time to respond with lots of great advice!

[Moira Elefson]

@Mark Suszko

I’m really trying hard to finish my reel and website. I’ve ready TONS of articles about salary negotiations and stuff like that and they all say the same thing about having another offer on the table to use during the negotiations. Use it as your muscle but be prepared to take it, which is what you’re saying. I defiantly need to find something fast to do this. I do think it will help. Again, about saying the salary first – I would think that makes sense too – I don’t want to say a number first. I want to see what they say (to see if they actually did any market research). If the number is still low, I would like to negotiate and get it higher, but I need failsafe option (another job) to do that. What if they say some low number that makes me laugh, and then they don’t negotiate higher and I don’t have another job lined up; I’d feel like an idiot because I would just be like “Ok” and go sit back at my desk.

Wow- A lot of good things said there! I do think they underestimate me when it comes to being pushy or aggressive (in a good way) so this is a good opportunity to change that as well. Also – Like I said, I was the first ‘creative’ ever hired here so my starting salary was based off some completely arbitrary job title. Now I’m not even asking for a large salary (compared to industry standards) but I just want to be paid fair! Maybe I even deserve more, but I’m just asking for fair right now. The problem is, my pay now is SO low, that when I ask for a more appropriate salary, it’s going to look like a huge increase, especially if they look at it from a percent point of view. I guess there is no getting around that though.

I love the strategy of letting them think I’m interviewing. They’re very lenient about taking off a few hours during the day and making them up and stuff like that, but they’ll defiantly notice – not to mention dress code is very casual, so dressing nice will certainly stand out.

Benefits: I’ve included a large part of my salary re-negotiation booklet to addressing this but I didn’t even think of some of the things you’ve listed. I’d love to go to some of the industry trade-shows but never thought about having Valspar send me. That’s defiantly something they would do, especially if training is involved. I already can get subscriptions to magazines, all the books and training stuff I want, travel reimbursement (even if it’s 10 miles to photograph something), and our benefits package is nice – but I don’t think it’s negotiable. Since I’m a one-man-team, I don’t think any of my work is worth of awards, but is that typical for a company to do for its creative department/employee? And what about joining industry groups like AIGA (only video ones)?

My state of mind is better than it’s ever been. I don’t know what part of my life is contributing to it the most, but I just feel so motivated for the past year. That’s actually how this all came about – including my new site and reel. I haven’t watched a movie, played a game, or read an entertaining book since probably Christmas (ok so maybe a few movies), but I just spend all my time working on video/photo/audio/design related stuff. I love it and it helps my work at my company. I’m pretty excited to get into the negotiations since as you suggested, I have a lot of research and facts.

Ego: In a couple of books I read, they say the same thing about how when selling yourself during renegotiations… don’t hold back. Be ‘about-yourself’ and brag – it’s the one time you should and deserve to, but don’t embellish or exaggerate things.

Haha got some good laughs there. Thanks a lot Mark. I may read all these posts a few more times during the next couple of weeks.

[Moira Elefson]

About doing X, Y, and Z tasks – I’m starting to find out how true that is with corporations! But it has working in my favor as far as learning.

I did actually bring up this whole salary/position renegotiating during my mid-year review. The process with HR and my managers is just SLOW – but at least it gives me time to prepare more!

I’ve actually been preparing all my ‘defenses’ towards my work/savings like you mentioned in example 2. Defiantly sounds better. I’ve had some trouble getting some local rates for video and photography services, and I didn’t want to ask for fake bids on projects we wouldn’t actually outsource – I would think that’s bad practice – So I’ve come up with some general rates/fees that I’ve found from other cities and tried to adapt them for Pittsburgh.

Some good advice, some I’ve already been taking into consideration.

Thanks Mike.

[Moira Elefson]

Ha! That’s actually not a bad thing to consider. If in the future, once my new site and reel are rolled out, I obtain a different position in Pittsburgh, I actually could do some freelance stuff for them. They did bring in freelance photographers before I started.

Problem is, when I start looking for a job, I’m not going to limit myself to any location. If there’s a great job in the USA – I’ll go there. I’d actually love to try living in a new city. Not a bad thought at all tho John

Thanks

[Moira Elefson]

That’s defiantly a good way of looking at it, and makes me feel better, especially since I’m only 23. I do like what I do here, and I defiantly like the people I work with – but it does get hard not ever working with peers or having mentors present at work (that’s why the internet is so great).

Thankfully my supervisor supports me a lot and has done a lot to help push this whole situation as well. The goal is to actually change my job title to not only make it much more accurate, but also change pay-grades. Again, this is all a hope right now.

To push for the whole salary/job-title renegotiation I’ve been preparing a booklet about me, my work at Valspar, my future work, and lots and lots of other things relating to this renegotiation. Well this booklet is now almost 40 pages. It’s been revised about 5 times and is just about ready to go to the people that matter. I’ve already been warned that most of them will just read the summary (that’s why we wrote one) and just acknowledge I did all the other work and research throughout the book.

Thanks Steve

[Moira Elefson]

You’re defiantly right, I’ve tried to subsidize my missing salary (that I think I deserve – I’d never say this to anyone at work!) by getting as much training and learning resources I can. Like I mentioned to Walter, I’ve been preparing my new site/portfolio/demo reel so that I can see what happens when I jump back into the market. All these new skill have already come in handy on a personal stance; building a nice flash site, demo-reel, lots of portfolio pieces to use, DVDs and much more. I just hope there are other positions out there that need someone like me.

Thanks Bill

[Moira Elefson]

I’ve been thinking about the personal equipment thing more and more, and I have to say I agree now. If they want to do something more complicated than they can with what they’ve provided, I’ll offer them to rent my equipment at decent rates compared to local rentals. There may be a ‘conflict of interest’ to rent my equipment, but if my rates are the best, then it should be ok – I’ll deal with that when I get to it tho. I have used my own camera when I first started, and one day I didn’t have it, someone wanted a picture taken and they got bent out of shape when I said I couldn’t. “Sorry I didn’t bring MY camera to work today!” ha I didn’t really say that, but your right, that’s how it goes. Now they’ve bought some stuff, but if I brought my video stuff in, it would probably become annoying/they’d take advantage of me more.

Ah, and actually when I said I bought all those book, I just meant I bought them at work. My company paid for all my books, training, certifications, software, etc. I bought a couple of books, but ones less relevant to my job.

Not plugging anyone or anything, but Andy Epstein’s book The Corporate Creative is phenomenal! It’s really changed the way I look at everything at work now. It’s really motivating while also showing some of the ugly truths. It was wrote for graphic designers, but as a corporate creative… it’s worth reading anyway. Also, it’s a 2-3 nights read.

Thanks Zane