Mike James
Forum Replies Created
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Original Video Collection I
Premiere Pro 1.0
Encore DVD 1.0
Audtion 1.5
After Effects 6.0Price = $250
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Cost to upgrade all those apps to a .5 higher:
Price = $250
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Cost now to upgrade those exact same apps the same .5 higher:
Price = $666
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It’s the same dot release for all four apps. The new features as a collection whole are no better than the last .5 release, yet to just bump them to the new versions is a now requires paying 266% more than the last .5 bump.
To me it is real simple. I see 1 to 1 ratio of new features compared to the last upgrade cycle. Yet there is a 2.66 to 1 price differential. That is not my choice. That is Adobe’s doing. I’m pointing out the disparity and so are others. Some will find the math just fine the way it is because they need Photoshop CS2 or Illustrator CS2 or Flash 8 Pro, but I do not.
And again, others in this thread and other threads are voicing the exact same thing I am. If the new features were more compelling you’d be hearing praise coming from me in these threads.
But to me this is the wendy’s upgrade “where’s the beef?”
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
His actual thoughts after using AE7 through the beta… I think he qualifies as a voice.
https://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=2&postid=868497
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
I don’t recall a widespread outrage online the last upgrade cycle. It is not just here at the cow that this is being discussed. There are far worse flames on other sites and utter disgust and contempt for what I can only see as a major oversight by management. If the available options were fair there wouldn’t be so much flaming online.
And I did as you said. There are way fewer reasons to upgrade this time around then last to justify paying what I thought would be the same upgrade costs, but instead is $666.
I can deploy my money in more efficient alternatives… hence why I am not upgrading. The reason I am so vocal is that my preference was to find great new features and simply stay with Adobe. But they are making really easy to turn my back and look elsewhere.
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
“””I don’t have Photoshop CS2 or Illustrator CS2.”””
I do already have them and I was only interested to see what was new in the core apps.
“””If you shelled out 20K last year on software, you had to feel it was worth it.”””
I always look at how I can increase workflow. It is always a balance with upgrades (new features and does the upgrade provide compelling value). For example. I did not upgrade my combustion 3 licenses (both mac and PC) from 3 to 4 because the new feature set was very weak (to me). The diamond keyer is a crutch and the standard keyer has more control. So I passed.
“””I’m more curious about people that don’t use AE pro. The standard version is a way for people to save money while owning AE, but if you aren’t using the pro version, you probably aren’t doing Pro level work.”””
For compositing I’m now focused on node based workflows. Shake 4 on the Mac and Fusion 5 on the PC (I am using the 8 bit DFX+5, but I also have another DFX+4 license I might upgrade to a full Fusion 5). After Effects Pro is a good app, but after getting a taste of node based flows I am not as keen to use AE except for some text effects and other situational motion graphics that are better dealt with in a layer based comp. But even then I lean towards Combustion 3 because I can do the same comps faster in combustion because the interface is much better laid out to get work done fast.
My original interest in the video collection was geared more towards Encore DVD, then Premiere Pro, then After Effects, then Audition (order of importance). After Effects has never been the deciding factor. I was very impressed with the integration of Encore and Photoshop for rapid menu creation as well. At the time I was looking for an all in one solution and Adobe fit the bill (at the time).
“””Yes you can do nice stuff, but to really compete, there are abunch of tools in the pro version that you need. Displacement maps, 3D integration with other programs, keying tools, a lot of effects, plus a whole bunch more…”””
Fusion has much deeper 3D integration. And Fusion’s particle system lets you work with 2D particles or full 3D particle systems. After Effects falls short of Fusion’s high end features.
“””If you’re spending 20K on software (which makes it sound like you do a lot of graphics and animation work), why would you choose to buy AE 7 standard? IF I’d spend any money as someone working with compositing effects and 3D, I’d make sure I had the best tools for the job.”””
You are focusing heavily on After Effects in this whole questioning process trying to understand where I am coming from, but I’m talking about the collection as a whole, not just After Effects. What it brings to the table as a package. I have all the high end compositing features covered with more capable apps for high end compositing (Shake/Fusion). My use of After Effects is for things it excels at like text effects and great plugins for quick cool effects (Trapcode Particular). I was really hoping for scripting support in Encore DVD and I’m really surprised at how watered down the new features are in this release. DVDSP and Sonic are lapping Adobe.. not by a nose, by an entire LAP.
Adobe’s collection is the tightest in the biz (in my opinion). Which is why I was really hoping to see ground breaking new features for a collection that has been in the lab for well over a year.
As I laid out above, my focus in the collection for new features was (in order of importance) Encore, PPro, AE, Audition.
“””Not a crack at you, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from.”””
I think my answers will shed some light on the fact why I don’t require the Pro version of AE. I have other apps that handle those feature sets much better (Shake/Fusion). If I didn’t I would agree with you that they are essential.
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
Ron,
LOL… I knew you were not telling me to shut up and I do understand the whole “mileage will vary”. For some who don’t already own the standard video collection, these bundles hold tremendous value. I just had to air it out once I realized they removed the typical standard upgrade path.
It really is more than an opinion. I was looking willing to spend the same $250 I did before to upgrade, but I don’t see enough compelling new features to warrant a $666 upgrade path. To each his/her own.
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
Steve,
I do think that someone who has not been a loyal video collection customer will be thrilled with the pricing. There is compelling value there for the person that doesn’t already own many of these apps as I do.And if the upgraded apps had stronger feature sets I’d just pay the $666. But for having well over a year to work on them I am actually underwhelmed. Impressed enough that I was looking for that ORDER button to pay $250 for the upgrades, but not impressed enough to consider $666.
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
Ron,
I won’t be littering the forums with this anymore. The news came out tonight. I watched the flash demos at adobe and was interested enough to go place my order. Then I couldn’t find an upgrade path for the apps I first bought a few years ago (version 1.0, then upgrade to 1.5).
Then I did the math and realized just to get my applications from 1.5 to 2.0 it’ll be $666 (for a dot release for goodness sake). So I’ll pass on the upgrades and I’ll now shut my trap about Adobe.
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
and you can find deals on STP and Motion also…
MacConnection is selling Motion 2 with a $50 rebate to make it $249 for Motion 2 + the Final Cut Studio updgrade for $199 = $448 (usually $1299 for FCStudio).
https://www.macconnection.com/Rebate/RebateDetail.aspx?Sku=5763832#10740Even if you pay the $499 to upgrade to the next studio version with FCP6 it should only be the typical $499 upgrade. That comes to $947 to get to Final Cut Studio with all the next generation versions (FCP6, Motion 3, etc…).
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
Ron,
I see your point. Yes, things have gotten much cheaper. Which is why it is so hard to swallow an upgrade that is a factor of roughly two and one half times what it was the last time around (video collection upgrade path). That’s some outstanding inflation I’ve not seen in any other software company’s policy.
I’ve spent over $20,000 on software in the last two years. I don’t expect stuff to be really cheap, but where is the customer appreciation? Where is the flexibility?
It ain’t in this upgrade path…
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com -
I don’t think this was thought through from all angles. Everyone I know and network with online and off that owns the video collection, owns the standard version (not the pro). Granted this is only 11 guys, but none of them were using the prior version with AE Pro and PhotoshopCS. Mainly because they already had photoshop (like any professional) and there was no need to pay extra for a suite that has an app you already own.
When those 11 wake up in the morning they are going to be fuming and flaming on threads online. $666 is their upgrade path now to all version 2 apps.
I’ve already made them aware of the FCStudio $498 upgrade path and it will be interesting to see who jumps ship. Most of us are dual platform.
The only guy I know who will see this and not upgrade and also not go to FCStudio is Alex Alexzander. He was waiting to see if Adobe was finally going to make Adobe Encore DVD a real authoring app with scripting (like DVD Studio Pro and DVD Lab Pro). I was hoping for that myself as well. I even created video training for Encore DVD which I sell online. I was pretty committed and hot about the Video Collection. But this $666 upgrade versus the last $250 upgrade is insane.
I was so looking forward to seeing what Adobe had been working on for well over a year. I am actually very underwhelmed and very dissappointed. I’ve been talking about how excited I was about this upgrade to so many folks. I think PPro and AE got the best of the upgraded apps.
I can honestly say with no hype and with a clear mind that I will not be paying $666 to upgrade my apps. And like I said… I already own the other non-video collection apps in the Premium version. I was a hard core Macromedia Guy before I bought LiveMotion 2. I even have multiple Studio 8 licenses and multiple Director licenses. But I’ll be migrating to greener pastures after seeing Adobe’s change of direction.
And I’d be shocked if even a third of my buds upgrade using the $666 upgrade path.
Mike James
VFXpodcast.com