[Mihael Tominšek]

Exactly…

And I wonder myself whyt real benefit I have sincer CS6.
Ugly blue GUI, countless of bugs, problems, lag, odd new functions, less and less intuitive interface, numerous plugins do not works anymoore (so I must repurchase them!) AND same or similar performance.

I wonder too, if Adobe can make even more dumb interface than this in 2017?
Rounded buttons – the peak od Adobe development. Man, they’re collecting 200.000.000 dollars per MONTH!! And serves us rounded buttons??? Oh Lord!

Why on earth they use only 3 colrs in GUI?? Dark grey, light gray and blue. Whyt on heavens sake is wrong with colors which can give shading and more visual cue to what is selected or not. This is beyond me. I hope Justice will com soon.

[Mihael Tominšek]

Dear Mark.

Unfortunately I did not finish my tapeless project yet with XHA1(s). I had unexpected life situation, so project stuck at some point.

I bought “Neet converter”, but that does not work with Atomos. Atomos said it worked with original Ninja, but not with Ninja 2 any moore. While at Neet said, it must be digital copy protection in chip which prevents signal through.

It does fine if XHA1 is connected to LCDTV, though. Comparing component to LCDTV with component>Neet>hdmi>LCDTV, picture is identical, so Neet is good converter, but it didn’t work. Same if connect BlurayPlayer with Atomos2.

So my illness set me back for half a year, so I did not order another C>HDMI converter (like Startech.com), to try it out.

What I do have and can confirm (since many debates over internet).
– I use Ninja2 with HV40 cameras (where benefits are great*)
– I can see benefit if XHA1 is connected via FireWire or via Component to TV**
– I do have XHA1 already tapeless with Datavideo DV-60***

So I hope I will finish my project soon. My goal is to have one XHA1s coupled with Atomos Ninja Blade for great low light camera with great monitor, other older XHA1 can stay with DN-60, than both HV40 with Atomos Ninja2 or even Ninja star (I must test Star when CFast will be somehow cheaper).

For shooting on controlled scenes, XHA1 lacks great monitor and great codec. Ninja Blade is my goal. I’m confident, that uncompressed signal will give great benefit over HDV, even more at lowlight where 3CCD have more grain than CMOS. That will yield more natural (less compressed picture with more detail that can be pulled out with Neat Video, where HDV destroys much of fine detail). In controlled environment extra devices are not “bulky”.

But for running and Gunnig I must consider. Even DN-60 is BULK on camera. For that sole scenarios, great quality TAPE is OK for hour of shoting. Maybe Ninja STAR will be ok for that (for other XHA1).

On Canon HV40, Atomos ninja 2 makes BIG BULK. So it diminishes handiness of camcorder, but I did not purchase 2 of them for anything else than “B-role” shots which are fixed at some position while doing interviews, live performances, etc. HV40 is better anytime than Gopro, having all settings needed and good optic. For anything important I have XHA1s or GH3 Lumix.

When I do live stuff (like stage play), 4 cameras makes 8 tapes = at least 5 hour of simultaneous digesting and 100€ for tapes. That cost me some 150€ per project. In some 10 projects I will return my investment, plus pisture is better, plus I can always use Atomos with future cameras or sell it. Plus work is done faster.

PS:
* HV40 benefit some 10% in sharpness and detail recorder via HDM to DNxHD220 vs HDV
* HV40 benefit A LOT in color definition, where you can now really crank CCR
* HV40 benefit somehow in natural appearance because more “analog-like” grain (noise) is visible instead of digital blockiness. And this noise is moving “live” (refreshed at 25fps interval), since HDV compression have keyframes where noise is somehow present, than few b-frames where not present (while playing, noise or rather blockiness is “flashing” and “jumping” instead being constant). Neat video work better with constant and uniform noise than with HDV.
* HV40 benefit a lot where moving and complex scene like watter or bushes.
– HV40 is a lot bigger with Atomos, start/stop does NOT work from camcorder and HV40.
+ I’m happy with improvement!
> here’s first video I tested with HV40+Atomos Ninja2

** XHA1 show similar benefit not being compressed as HV40 if connected to LCDTV. I made test scene in my studio. I lighten with hot spots and dark shadows than I put different stuff in front of camera including rotating colorfull umbrella. I recorded HDV via DN-60 which clones internal HDV via FireWire on CF card. DN-60 have playback feature, so I could than switch between HDV playback and live feed from XHA1 to my LCDTV (via component out).
** XHA1 benefit at being less compressed (no “mosquito” effect near contrasty edges, no blockiness at moving objects).
** XHA1 benefit with better an more accurate colors and better percieved sharpness because color sampling is not HDV crippled.
I tested with all image improvements and noise reductions off on TV. Than I tested with sharpening boosted and with “resolution+” swithced on, to emphasize noise and artefacts from camera. I’m confident, that end benefit will be worth it. Right now I can say if better codec resolve some resolution too, because my test were not very accurate, since switching between DN-60 and live feed takes some seconds. Blindly I checked with my spouse too.

*** DN-60 IS CRAP!! Now DN-60A is out, allegedly better and fixed device. But this is contrary to XHA1 itself, very much “last year snow”. They never fixed pre-record with HDV and timelapse. FireWire tends to make trouble with small miniDV terminal on XHA1 (big chunky cable and so fragile port). On XHA1s I dare to walk and shoot, but not with my XHA1. Device is not 100% reliable (ok, neither is tape). Conforming files takes good 5-10 minutes for 32GB, than at least 10-15 minutes on card reader (USB 3.0 goes faster, but DN-60 does not take latest UDMA7 CF cards), and it works exclusively only with Sandisk CF (which are expensice and CF is absolete for anything else).

DN-60 is made from crappy plastic – it breaks with total care in mind, not at all field device. Awukward design by all means – firewire at bottom, battery compartment (lid broke), CF card compartment (lid broke), menus, knob… I just use it because I payed so much once. And it is same price new is Ninja Star. And DN-60 is good ONLY with SD/HDV… Atomos will live with new cameras too.

So… I hope I’m not so much long you’ll describe it TLNR 🙂
If you’re like me, you’ll want to read it all and moore. I digged over net for minths, readed several times everything.

I can confirm: XHA1 have no compressed output from component terminal and is in many aspects near XF300 (I owned for short period in 2012, but than I rather bought another XHA1s instead and saved tons of money). It only stuck with HDV codec… But I just love CCD (software stabilisation just works wonders, not like CMOS).

++invest time into QTGMC – it’s really worth it!! I shoot 50i than convert to 50p and results are just stunning. It’s like new camera, almost double the percieved resolution, color is steady and smooth (no color “jumping” like with HDV in Premiere). I can’t wait to feed DNxHD recorded signla to QTGMC.

Great regards,
MIHAEL

[Mihael Tominšek]

Dear James Goodenough.

Thank you SO much for this. I would never came to this idea, regardless I know the issue of Final cut XML export. You are a time saver.

I had to render project on spare machine not having filters on. Searched for one clip as needle in the barn.

I love internet and that is why I always help others where I can.

[Mihael Tominšek]

“the component signal you are talking about using is after the HD-to-HDV compression”

I couldn’t dissagree more. I have two cameras and our tests gave clear evidence in many different way’s of testing that component output on XHA1 is uncompressed.

Common sense was telling me that there is no point giving analog output of compressed signal. Canon cut corners on XHA1 camera when coupled new imaging tech with oldfashioned tape: The very reason I bought it and never regret it, is that records on tape. All HDD/FLASH camcorders of that time (2006) were either much more expensive or had much worse image than XHA1. My common sense was teling me, that CANON have boat loads of tape mechanisms on its disposal, so most of my money will go to image quality, while in new flash based cameras, much of cost went into recording tech. That proved many times on field when I was “fool” to still have tape, compared to my colegues, but in editing room, they were “fools” having much worse image 🙂

So why would CANON raise it’s manufacturing costs by implementing another dedicated D/A converter for feature that 0,5% of users will ever be bothered to try?? It’s 2014 and I “waited” that much time until I bought decent LCD with component-in, and Atomos and all stuff came from the sky to earth with asking prices.

I have my first camcorder for 7 years. I bought new second XHA1s in 2012 and 2 (used) HV40 few months ago. I really believe in this little HDV cameras for light stuff like lectures, churches, theathre plays… I have one DN-60 recorder, and wanted to couple other three cameras with it too. But since DN-60 is same money as Atomos, again my “component to ProRes” idea came along.

PS: HDV is OK codec if:
– you do not plan to alter it later
– grade it
– color correct it
– if camera was perfect still during shoot
– if frame does not include moving watter or foliage
– if not shooting formula one or football (fast paning)

HDV is like JPEG: A final, delivery codec. But in computer we can give 2-pass VBR encoding, to reasign bits to more demanding scenes. Camera compress CBR and makes big blocks in picture when moved fast. There is no blocks on component out, no banding, no moskito effect, …

[Mihael Tominšek]

I can assure that XHA1/XHA1s’s component output is NOT HDV compressed.

I have both cameras and I have DN-60 firewire recorder too. But I want to upgrade it to Atomos Ninja 2 or Blade, because of bad HDV codec. So I crawled the web and found this site https://teamjaded.com/2011/04/aja-ki-pro-mini-canon-xh-a1.html/comment-page-1#comment-107861

There I wrote long comment about my findings. The author of that blog comfirmed me the same, that they gained better color information for grading.

I’m certain that XHA1 gives uncompressed output via component and with less crippled colors and a bit sharper image too. But original grain that is lost due to HDV compression is now visible – how fine it depends on gain settings. It should be mentioned that XHA1 have lots of grain even at +3 dB, so only -3dB is relatively clean. But all that is not visible from badly compressed HDV.

The only crucial and weak link in that chain will be cheap Neet® – Component to HDMI Converter I plan to buy. But many users which tried it report that fine grain was introduced uppon conversion. I’m shure that grain is not introduced by A/D converter, but rather converter is so good that converts all the grain from camera. Bad converter would smear or blur grain!

That triggered my decision. Sometimes even bad review of product gives me right information. 🙂

[Mihael Tominšek]

YES, this feature does solve the problem with fading (and some others too).

I used to make fade-in-out by hand with keyframes, because dissolve effect in Premiere is nonlinear to eyes (it’s actually linear, instead of S-curve). I wasn’t trying to render without CUDA, so I didn’t know that software renderer make it better. And I forgot how it was prior to CUDA, since It is long ago when I used version 4, 3, 2 and 1.

I never used MRQ because it takes 4x longer to export, but all it does is make “sharpening” on eges (actually enhances contrast between dark/bright edges). I used to scale outside Premiere. So it happened I unticked “composite in linear color”, because it sais it will engage MRQ.

I’m glad I had different issue with titles to found this thread and ticked “linear color” back. It does not efect rendering time, but solves dissolve problem and my jagged title edges problem.

While never experienced before in CC version titles have no aliasing at edges on interlaced footage if “composite in linear color” is ticked off and rendering is with cuda. Edges are smooth while title is fading in, after 100% apacity, they become jagged. At fade out they are smooth again. If renderer is software only, problem gone. With “composite in linear color”, the edges are again ok.

While I was searching for this problem, I found solution for the dissolve too. I killed two flyes at once.

Thank you comunity.
MIHAEL

[Mihael Tominšek]

MY five cents:
– I have DN-60 for a while (once replaced due to bad production quality)
– I do not trust this product as 100% reliable, so I’m not using it much
– I tried various CF cards I had handy, but ONLY SanDisk worked so I ended up with several 16GB Ultra (30 MB/s) and lately 32GB Extreme (60 MB/s, since they are almost same price per GB lately.

So speed of CF card have not much to do with DN-60, but must be something else. Some other card I have tried was faster than Sandisk (I have CF-SATA adapter). Some card were not recognised, some were not working for recording.

DN-60 is you-get-what-you-pay-for:
– cumbersome design at every corner of device (CF card, FW cable, batteries, navigation BUTTON !!)
– awkward and nonlogical menu and navigation
– nonreliable (probably part of it is more to the FW connection on camera

I use Canon XHA1 and XHA1s:
– With both cameras and FW connector (4 and 6 pin) I experienced lost connection, droped frames, bad first two frames
– Both cameras act same: The “CUT” is not at the same spot as in on tape is. CF card “start recording” a bit sooner than tape, but odd is that CF card cuts away second of video, while on tape is stil recorded. I actualy tested this recording wall clock. And tape stops when I press record button. But CF card eats away one second.

DN-60 have other issues too, but batteries runs longer than stated – I use Panasonic evolta ones and I like that.

I use DN-60 for backup while I record all the time while camera is on, but make separate takes with tape. That way I have “prerecord”. So DN-60 really is not magic cure.

But I can confirm too, that only SandiskCard works. Maybe some other too, but I would not risk and have not time (an money) to buy all and test it myself. DN-60 made me some grey hair even without this.

regards, MIHAEL

[Mihael Tominšek]

Dear Ty.

With all respect to You and your experiences, but you are only advocating “your way” with several “look how good I did it” stories. But you never really answered to Tim’s question. And after several times he tried to explain the situation he is and budget he have, you still dig in to details to prove your (only proper?) way of doing it.

I had the same question as Tim years before, when I started own videoproduction business. The reason I found this old thread is I do regular searches for any new devices for multichannel recording on market. While I do multichannel recordings, I would like to find even better way of doing it.

I agree with all you said Ty, but it misses Tims question.

I was employed in our national tv station for several years. And one among the program was live coverage of sunday masses. While national TV does that with production truck, 4 cameras, 6-8 microphone and 4 guys sitting in the truck, I’m doing wedding masses, proms and theather plays with only 3 person behing cameras and edit video/audio in post. Obviously I’m way cheaper than hiring production truck and staff, and the resulting movie is much more refined than live output, where all mistakes are written to the mix for good.

Recording audio in 24/96 give WAY enough headroom that microphones can be unattended, and in fact the levels does not vary much (experiences). When some unexpected extreme sound happens (let say altar boy drops the bells on the stone floor) no one can handle that manually. I actually do not even use compressor limiters, because (as manual leveling) I do not want that one very loud drop or something affect all neighbouring audio. It’s better to let this brief sound to clip and I cut it out from the final mix in post. That kind of stuff is rare.

In most scenarios I put my recorder(s) to -12dB and it’s just great. Actualy recording microphones directly on 24 bit recorder at -12dB results way less noise than having analog mixer (and compressor/limiter) in chain and being able to go at -6dB then. It’s rediculus.

I started bussiness with 8-channel MIXER while recording mix into 1 digital recorder years ago. Cameras acted as sound backups. But nowadays I’m using 3 independent digital recorders per microphone pair directly, because it’s cheaper to buy/operate and is less equipment to set/gather and gives me all freedom to cut in post.

It’s obvious that microphones must be placed right to get good audio, and that right microphones must be choosen, too.

For budget of 1000 for the equipment, there is NO sound adwantage having mixer and only stereo recorder. It’s even worse. The only thing I’m seeking is a good and not overpriced 6 or 8 channel recorder. Intil today it is still cheaper to go with 3 separate digital recorders. It’s even reducing chance of failure to 1/3 as hawing only one device.

just my thoughts, as I think TIM made correct choice for his situation.

Best regards, MIHAEL

[Mihael Tominšek]

Hi Maria.

I couldn’t figure out how to edit AdobePremiereProject XML this time. Framerate is “encoded” with some numbers… But I’ll give you my way of fixing this. It’s not as fast as editing XML, but reasonable enough not to jump out of the window.:)

1) You did 24p “multicam sync timeline” and place all 30p clips on it and synced it.
2) You did import 24p sync timeline into 24p “multicam edit timeline”
3) You multicam edited this timeline
…right?

FIX:

4) I created correct 30p (or 60i, or whatever your clips are) timeline and copy/pasted everything from (wrong) 24p timeline to it (Ctrl+A > Ctrl+C, than Ctrl+V). Since clips are already 30p, they will be perfect on new correct timneline, so ok at this point.

5) I Created new multicamera timeline with correct framerate too and imported new 30p synced timeline to it. It’s not edited yet of course… But you must enable “multicam” for this 30p timeline too, of course, before going on.

6) I copy and paste over (and under for audio) wrong 24p timeline. Select video2 and audio2 layer only so pasting will not overwrite 30p timeline. Or paste it at the and and drag above video1 and below audio1. No you should have 30p synced timeline on video/audio 1 and 24p synced timeline on video and audio 2. What to do next…

7) Select both video1 and vide2 layers (tracks), so SNAP to edits will work. Now just use shortcuts to jump from edit to edit and apply cuts to 30p timeline where they are on 24p timeline (use shortcuts for this too). Cuts will not be possible at the very same spot because different framerate, but within 1 frame accurate, so OK at this point.

8) You delete wrong 24p timeline than, so now you have cutted multicam timeline with correct framerate. All you need is to define “camera 1 / camera 2” to each clip. You will just select every second clip in timeline (selecting with “V” tool while holding Shift button).

Than you lift all selected clips to Video2. Now you can right click on one of the (still) selected clips and choose “multi-camera”>”Camera2”. When you select this, all clips will change acording to new camera selected.

If you made wrong camera selection you can easily select all clips just on this track to change camera again (if you would not lift the clips, now you would have to hand select them again).

For 4 camera edits, it’s a bit more work. But this is still better than THINK and FIND solution for all edits again.

I hope it helps.
But still I’ll ask someone if will have time to dig into XML to find “find-replace” solution for this task too. It’s not so rare to happen.

Regards,
MIHAEL

[Mihael Tominšek]

Yes Pablo! My VOTE for FIXing broken projects as well.

But in facts for broken projects I was already opening projects before, to delete manualy all instances of some filter I knew they screwed project. But never thought to fix other things.

With your hack + my addition for aspect ratio we actualy invented everyday workflow for offline editing in Premiere with complex sequence structures and converting it to HD after being finished; so fast and efficient is. All I will do in next days will be simple find and replace script in PHP (I know to program that, but a lot of different programming languages could be used), where I will load project, enter numbers in fields and hit process. Or even better having radio buttons to just click desired conversion, or even better just buttons to hit desired processing. Instead of 2 minutes, only 20 seconds 🙂

I bet we can find/replace even place of footage, to shorten the time even further. Instead of manualy browse and double click for every missing file in project (or group of them, I have footage on several disks/NAS storages for better speed), we can just past old and new “path” and hit process.

Cheers from Slovenija
MIHAEL