Michael Gissing
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Forum Replies Created
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[Steve Connor]”Doesn’t look like they’ll be supporting ProRes 4K any time soon though”
ProResRAW. Interesting point of view that it is early days for the format. For Blackmagic, it’s got shortcomings in color science. I’m sure they will support it but he seemed very meh about it. “just a container with a LUT..”
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[Andrew Kimery] “We don’t have to try hard to see where MC, PPro and X are being used, but aside from the occasional one-off story Resolve usage as an NLE seems invisible.”
It all depends on focus. Outside of the circle of editors I am seeing a big uptake of use of Resolve. On a 5 camera shoot last night, every DP had Resolve and were talking excitedly about Resolve 15. I have a number of editors who have had Resolve up their sleeve for a few version now who are openly talking about it becoming their primary, particularly to facilitate a more seamless hand over to me for grade & sound. Even though they have their Pr, or X or 7 or MC as the primary they are using Resolve more and more. It feels very much like the way FCP unmined AVID all those years ago by being the go to NLE for personal use then rapidly became the primary. The RT performance has held Resolve back. The improvements to 14 and now the extra performance improvements in 15 might kick that door open.
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Some solid improvements to the Fairlight page and super excited that Fusion is now integrated as well. There was one little comment that Grant Petty made during the NAB presentation about being able to open old Fusion and Fairlight projects in Resolve. This, plus the new hardware controllers are important steps.
Once again Blackmagic is surging at a pace. I did think this might be the release that brought ProRes encoding to Windows and Linux and maybe at least a mention of ProResRAW intentions.
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Joe, all this was my response to the article claiming this was big for DSLRs. I don’t think this is the market at all. They are not cameras that allow RAW sensor data to be output to external Shogun recorders so it will only work with internal recording if they want it too or with hacks like magic lantern maybe.
They are DSLRs so that’s not important. Will some DSLRs adopt this? Sure but for all existing DSLRs it is unlikely. And these days with Blackmagic making cine cameras so cheap, I don’t see why DSLRs will be as popular for the sort of high end cine work that RAW formats are good for. So you can keep arguing how newer DSLRs might be capable but I just do not agree with the article stating this is huge for DSLRs. We shall see.
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It makes sense to me that all the Blackmagic 4k+ cameras have this codec. But they haven’t bothered to introduce cDNG which is not much greater a data rate to the older 4k range yet. I’m sure it will appear in the Ursa Mini range very soon. Knowing BM, maybe during NAB along with a whole lot of new things. Maybe that’s why Apple went first so as not to have their update dwarfed by the usual amazing BM NAB news.
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[Steve Connor] “I think he should actually take FCPX out of the name and just call it “NLE Debates” FCPX users could take the conversations over to the FCPX forum itself”
FCPX has always had both forums. Name changes still seem unnecessary to me. You’ve always had the option to chose which forum to argue in but for many of us we don’t trespass into a genuine FCPX forum. This forum isn’t and never has been despite recent attempts to banish us pesky debaters.
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[Joe Marler] “So it doesn’t seem the data rate of current UHS-II cards is an impediment to ProRes RAW.”
Which is why the Ursa Mini Pro offers these card drives now. But as always the exception doesn’t prove the rule. Yes some newer DSLR cameras and cards can support the required data rate. But a single 128 card shooting these codecs in 4k will last 22 minutes max. If ProResRAW is viable then why aren’t they shooting ProResHQ 4k already? Because most DSLR cameras need more record time and correct me if I’m wrong but the A7 Sony cameras don’t support high data rate codecs, especially ProRes. Why should they. They have their own flavors of XAVC and slog workflows. Canon, Nikon? Doubt that too but more than happy to see them take on a better codec. Panasonic DSLRs? More likely perhaps but the DSLR market is not really the target for this codec in my opinion.
So my point remains that this is not a big deal for DSLRs. Most can’t handle it and the newer cameras and cards that can are in cameras that are unlikely to support it. For cameras like Arri, Blackmagic & Panasonic cinema cameras with bigger fast and reliable drives, this is relevant. Time will tell if it is a big deal. Personally I am happy with this codec development but waiting to see how gracious Apple are with it.
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And just to add to his final statement that ProResRAW will become standard as a deliverable. No It’s a camera acquisition format. It’s RAW sensor data, compressed and wrapped up. Once an NLE unpacks it to edit, grade etc, a different codec must be used to create finals.
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Huge deal is perhaps overstatement. Already many cameras record ProRes and DNx as well as RAW formats. cDNG is already a well established open codec with up to 4:1 compression so this new ProRes format is only slightly more compressed. That’s not a huge deal and unless Apple make it an open codec then that slight advantage is not going to pay off. In other words unless cross platform NLE software gets to use this without problems, as more and more post finishing facilities are going to Win & Linux, then using it in the field will be discouraged from the finish facilities and for good reason.
DSLRs with ProResRAW? I think not. Their onboard cards are not up to the rigors of this sort of data rate. There’s a reason why non DSLR cameras go for CFAST and SSDs. To get from H264 at data rates under 50Mb/s to ProResRAW around 200Mb/s is not insignificant. If they can handle ProResRAW then they can probably already do cDNG. They don’t because real big fast dual card DSLRs are not normal. Chuck in the need to get up to 60p and no, ProResRAW isn’t any new big deal in that area. DNG might come up with a 6:1 codec which would be a bigger deal potentially.
The article seems to not be aware that ProRes has in fact been losing ground as a deliverable format but if you stay inside the FCPX bubble you wouldn’t notice. More common now are the XAVC codecs for broadcast deliverables. Smaller than ProRes and can be easily made on cross platform software. As long as Apple hog ProRes as a recordable format within their ecosystems the more likely it is that their proprietary format will not be a big deal let alone a huge one. Given the similarities between DNx and ProRes and how DNx codecs exist that match the ProRes family, I wouldn’t be surprised to see DNxRAW appear before too long. That would also be big, probably bigger.
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[Charlie Austin] “From what I’ve heard, you can edit with these files just fine, no need to transcode.”
Yes like all RAW camera codecs there is no need to transcode. I edit with R3D and cDNG all the time but only a camera can record raw sensor data. That’s what I mean by camera originating. My final graded masterpieces however must be output in another format like the various ProRes or DNx mastering codecs.
Regarding Apple wanting to share their jewels, they must get Blackmagic and Arri onboard. If they allow them to use the codec then Win & Linux machines that run NLEs must be able to handle this codec to edit in the same way that they do now with all other flavors of ProRes. If not then Blackmagic won’t bother offering it on their cameras.