Matt Lyon
Forum Replies Created
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Hi Adam, I didn’t realize the majority of the show was green screen. I understand now why you want to automate the process more.
Your process sounds like it might work in theory, but I think you should do a test on a small timeline to make sure it works in practice.
One potential gotcha: if you have split up a clip into multiple smaller pieces, that are placed in non-consecutive parts of your finished timeline, how are you going to deal with the fact that they will all have the same name? For your system to work reliably, all the plates you send to VFX need unique names.
You should be able to reconnect clips to different media that is a different format. You can even “force” reconnect to clips with a different filename or reel name. What will be a problem is if the timecode doesn’t line up. But you should do a test … round trip a couple shots through your pipeline and see what happens.
But that being said, if you are doing a long format show that is mostly DPX files, are you sure you can’t drop $600 for GlueTools? It sounds like you are trying to jump through a lot of hoops when the right tool already exists for your job. (At least in theory — I haven’t used GlueTools myself).
As for hardware — you’ll need a disk array that can handle 10 Bit Uncompressed data rates (with a healthy amount of overhead). You should be able to Google all that info. You’ll also need a 10 bit capable video I/O device and a good broadcast monitor.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Good to hear. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t steering you wrong. I can’t help with beta testing but please let us know how everything works out.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
It would be very cool indeed Steve!
But I tried some quick tests in an “8 bit uncompressed” 720P timeline and the “Colorsync” filter seems to have no effect. Has anybody else gotten this to actually work?
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
I agree with Michael, if you can get straight quicktime files from the lab, that saves a lot of hassle in digitizing, removing pulldown, etc.
If you go with tape, at minimum go with DVCAM. No DVD or min-DV. These don’t have real SMPTE timecode.
[Michael Fix] “5) Was going to ask for: Daily Roll, Key Code, Pull Down, Video TC, Audio TC – but very uncertain what to keep in/out.”
Sounds good to me. Make sure you check with the lab doing the 2K scan and verify that the burn in includes all the info they need to do the conform. This will be in the flex file too, but it’s good to have the visual backup.
[Michael Fix] “6) Plan to request Flex File but was not certain of frequency.”
If you’re going with a tape based workflow, you should get a flex file at least as often as you have rushes delivered to the edit suite, since you’ll use the flex file to make a batch capture list.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hi Steve,
You can apply ICC filters to clips via Effects>Video Filters>Quicktime>Colorsync.
You can also “burn” them into clips in the “export>using quicktime conversion” window, or from within Quicktime Player 7, under Export>Video>filter>Adjustments>Colorsync.
Hope this helps,
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Adam Claude Jones] “will I go about conforming the shots later, if not manually?”
When I’ve worked as an assistant editor, prepping shows for VFX work, I put text overlays in the timeline to mark every shot that is designated to have effects work. When I receive the completed work back, the media names match the text overlays exactly and the clips are already to length (possibly with handles). So, yes, conforming is a manual process, but a quick one. Inserting shots manually, on a separate track, also lets me A/B the material for the director and/or producer, which is often asked for.
If you are really nervous about the process, I suggest you try to find an experienced feature assistant in your area who’ll let you shadow them and teach you the process. That is how I got trained.
[Adam Claude Jones] “About the final VFX clips being delivered as quicktime files, the only reason would be quality and also practicability.”
I get what you are saying, but unless you are using GlueTools, FCP is quicktime based and you’ll have to convert your media to a format that plays nice with the rest of your timeline.
[Adam Claude Jones] “VFX shots are normally rendered as image sequences because if you need to re-render something or add more at the head or tail, it’s just a matter of re-rendering the needed frames.”
I guess this is a matter of philosophy and approach, but my preference is that when revisions are called on a shot, the VFX artist makes an entirely new version (with a new version number), and delivers the full frame range. I know some facilities don’t work this way … but I find it is the least error prone. Of course, there are downsides to this approach.
[Adam Claude Jones] “But when you say to render it to 10 bit uncompressed quicktimes, I think you mean the Apple Animation codec?”
I mean the “10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 codec.” Check the codec list in FCP and quicktime, it’s in there! Another high quality option that people like is ProRess 4444 (which I haven’t personally tried yet). The animation codec is 8 bit RGB, and isn’t really a good choice anymore, IMHO.
But there is no reason why you can’t get DPX image sequences delivered to you, and then convert them to the codec of your choice.
If you have to hand off the project to another facility for an online or DI or whatever, you can give them an HD with folders of the original DPX files, so they use the highest quality source in the conform.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
No problem Adam, I’m happy to help.
I have used the a free cineform enabler for FCP, but only for a very short project. IMHO, I think it would only make sense if your whole project is going to be edited in Cineform. I’m not sure about the 10 bit issue you describe. You should check their documentation or try contact their tech support.
[Adam Claude Jones] “I could of course try to do some sort of offline workflow. Convert the footage to some QT for editing, send the original to the VFX but when it’s sent back to FCP after FX is done it will come in DPX (or TIFF) and I have the same problem. I need GlueTools and a RAID. Man, I’m on a jam here. :(“
I don’t think you are in a jam here! I think you are getting too caught up in worrying about image fidelity right now. There is no reason to edit at “full quality” at the moment. Keep your cineform files in a protected place on your HD. Convert the footage and edit away. You’ll have a much more reliable editing experience when you aren’t mixing and matching resolutions and codecs.
Is there any reason your final VFX clips couldn’t be delivered as quicktime files? You could ask for 10 bit uncompressed quicktimes, which you could then use natively in FCP or convert as needed (to ProRes, for example). Any PC or Mac with quicktime should support this codec. You will need a very fast hard drive to play these back though.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Arya Boustani] “I found postings regarding rendering problems with more than 4 mega pixel still images. The same problems occurred to me (stills of 6 to 7 mega pixels but I needed high resolution images because I automate the zoom quite a bit and I have a full HD project. I kept RT Safe mode, changed the Still Cache to higher number (around 50 percent) and all the preview render green line changed to red”
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the rule of thumb is to not use images that exceed 4000 px in either dimension (which is not the same as saying 4 megapixels).
My experience is that you can never set the Still Cache to 50%. The crappy thing is, FCP won’t really give you a reliable error message, it will just fail to allocate any memory for real-time stills. Depending on what your system is doing, I’ve found the highest your can go is 20-30%, give or take a few percentage points. Turn your Cache down, and your green line should come back.
Hope this helps,
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hey Louis,
“Preparing video for display” is a message that pops up when FCP is caching still images into RAM. The amount of RAM FCP sets aside for stills is controlled in the preferences. If your timeline now wants to render all your stills, it means FCP is no longer able to set aside the amount of RAM you’ve requested. Try lowering the still image cache, and/or rebooting.
If your stills are really large (over 4000 pixels in either dimension), it could also be causing problems. If you search the forum, you’ll find lots of tips for optimal still image workflow.
Hope this helps,
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hi Adam,
Long form narrative films are typically broken up into “reels.” Each reel corresponds to 2000 feet of 35 mm film (roughly 20 minutes of screen time). Although “reel breaks” are becoming less relevant, you still need to think about them if your project might get theatrical distribution. The first reel is usually shorter, to allow for leaders that might tacked on the reel.
Regardless of how your movie is shown, working in reels is still a useful organizational system. In my experience, this is how post production folk are expecting to receive material (not to mention sound designers and composers). All editors work differently, but I would typically start assembling scenes as the rushes arrive, and then start compiling everything into reels once the shoot is over.
As for DPX files, have you checked out GlueTools?
https://www.gluetools.com/products_dpx.html
I haven’t tried it myself, but it might be what you are looking for. The other option is to convert the files to match the codec and resolution of your main footage. I would probably also put a per-frame burn in on the converted footage, to show the source file name of the DPX frames. This will make it easier to identify the source files and do the media breakouts for the VFX people.
Typically, once the film is locked for time, you would sit down with the director, producer and VFX lead and do a spotting session to identify all the effects and discuss the creative objectives of each shot.
To keep things organized, each VFX shot should get a unique name and text overlay in the FCP timeline. In the past, the VFX company has given me an empty hard drive, on which I’ll make a folder for each shot. In each folder, I would put the source DPX files that correspond exactly to the length used in the locked project (with handles, if requested). It also helps to start a spreadsheet to track all the VFX shots, where you can list the timeline in-outs, source file in-outs, source media file name, notes, etc…
Hope this helps,
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto